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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

If you believe in nothing, just as the animals do, then I'm not sure. How are you supposed to tell right from wrong?


I make my own morals. The same way the wolfs know that killing each other would be counter productive.

I'm not sure your words made perfect sense to me, but... If you are a Christian soldier, you should protect your country/friends/family by murdering, only as a last resort. Because some of those enemies would take you life, or the lives' of you're fellow soldiers, without question. God will also forgive you of murder if you ask him.


You asked me if killing was wrong. I said sometimes. Your response is irrelevant.

I'm not completely up-to-snuff on my Bible studies, but I think that stoning was part of old jewish laws. But like I said, I'm not a certified Bible scholar or anything.


It is in the Torah, or Old Testament to the Christians. Which, even Jesus said, still counts.

If you believe that the Bible is the book of a deity, and is more important information for him to give then even things like medicine, then why are you not memorizing the whole thing?

Everyone does not share the same morals, if we did, would we be discussing this? Christians get their morals from the Jesus and his doctrine.


Bull. You have not gotten any of your morals from Jesus or his doctrine. If you did, then wouldn't all Christians think the same?

If god gave us morals, then all morals would be the same. Since all morals are different, then that means that a god could not have given us morals.

Because Jesus commands Christians to go make disciples. And I don't hate life, and I never said that I did.


You seem to think that without religion, you would be a murderous killer. If religion is the only thing keeping you from genocide, then you hate life.

So why not live dangerously while doing it? That way you get disciples and get to heaven faster. And why are you sad when someone dies, if you believe they are going to heaven?

Because that lobster is temporary and meaningless. Ernest Hemmingway was an atheist who killed himself because he could find no meaning. He was smart enough to not prolong the inevitable, but no smart enough to see the gospel.


? He was not an atheist. He was Catholic, he even had a Catholic funeral.

Alright, thousands of suicides happen across the world each year. Statistically, most of them are Christians do to there being more Christians. So why don't you off yourself, or if you can't do that drink hard and live dangerously, if you are just going to go to heaven after you die?

Bingo. Back to my original question. Why don't you go and do whatever you please?


Because that would be wasting it. I would much prefer to leave a legacy of science and friends and family then "That rapist". Are you suggesting that if you where an atheist, you would **** and pillage then kill yourself?

Adolf Hitler was bad because he murdered millions of people, which is against Christian morals.


HA! Have you read the Bible? God killed more than that, and is planning to do the same himself. The flood! Revelations! David, Sampson, Lot, he ordered killings of millions and killed millions himself.

Now answer my question. Why is killing bad, if it is just sending people to god, or sending them to hell, which would be part of his plan?

God desires no one to suffer. Why do you think he sent his only son to save us?


Yawheh wants people to suffer. Why else would he make hell in the first place?

No, it is your choice to reject, or believe in God.


So are you saying that all the Jews, who would go to hell under the Christian doctrine, deserved to go to hell?

I was assuming that I were an atheist, and that the laws of society have been abolished. Then I would to whatever I please.


Then you are the scum of the earth and deserve no paradise.

Probably. If I were to blind to see meaning, I would probably kill myself.


You are blind, and you are still alive. See what I said about you hating life?

Childish name-calling is the first sign that is shown when one is losing a debate. You are lucky I do not take offense to this. But I forgive you for calling me names. Or are you not sorry?


Apologize? You are scum and a coward. You admit to being ruled by fear, the only reason you even live is because you are afraid to die. You are scum, you have no morals outside of an insane book you have not even read, and admitted that you would **** and pillage without it. I gladly call any man ruled by fear a coward, and any man without a sliver of morals scum.
Dubness2
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Dubness2
389 posts
Nomad

Then why did He send Jesus to suffer?

So no one else has too.
Is this justification for the Crusades?

He never said that. The actions of a radical group within the fundamental group shouldn't represent the attitude and the goals of the whole. That's just being narrow-minded.
Without knowledge of the consequences, there wasn't much incentive not to eat it. It's like telling a kid not to touch the stove because they'll get burned, when the kid's never been burned before. They'll touch it wondering what the heck you were talking about. Also, since God's all knowing, he knew what choice they'd make, so he set them up for failure from the start.

Obviously, ultimately that is how one learns a lesson, from a mistake, correct?
You believe that an all-powerful being decided to create you with the sole purpose of being his preaching slave instead of simply writing "I am God, I exist" in the sky?

He wanted to bring more honor and glory to His name and His kingdom, simply writing it in the sky would be pointless.
Gotta love contradictions. By your logic, if God made him with right and wrong born into him, and he truly believed that Jews were enemies of Christ who deserved to die and God was putting him in power for such a noble purpose, then therefore God told him that genocide was the right thing to do

He said "Basic understanding" not complete/full understanding. Hitler was driven by lust for power that made him blind to the rights or wrongs of Christian morals and more for to gain power. It was all a big political stunt in the beginning to be anti-semetic, because most German people were thats how he gained parliamentary seats in the Reichstag and power for his Nazi party.
master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

Then you'll just do whatever you please because it can be excusable? So if it's excusable once it should be fine all the time, right? And think of a situation where raping is excusable.


You just don't know how to read do you.

Why is there a law against murder?


Because society wouldn't exist if everyone is murdering everyone.

Christian: "What do you believe is life's meaning?"
Atheist: "Survival, entertainment, and the pursuit of happiness in general.
Christian: "So does that mean you'll steal 1 billion dollars from someone to make yourself happy? And stealing that money is fine because it 'fulfills your meaning?"


This Christian reminds me of someone in this debate who keeps making illogical assumptions.
Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

So no one else has too.


then why are we still suffering, even today?

He never said that. The actions of a radical group within the fundamental group shouldn't represent the attitude and the goals of the whole. That's just being narrow-minded.


but it was the whole. the entire catholic church (that wasn't killed for disagreeing) agreed. there was only the catholic church back at that time. also, RELIGION is narrow minded in practice.

He wanted to bring more honor and glory to His name and His kingdom, simply writing it in the sky would be pointless.


still shows how egotistic god is.

He said "Basic understanding" not complete/full understanding. Hitler was driven by lust for power that made him blind to the rights or wrongs of Christian morals and more for to gain power. It was all a big political stunt in the beginning to be anti-semetic, because most German people were thats how he gained parliamentary seats in the Reichstag and power for his Nazi party.


beside the point. what my friend argued is that if god wants people to go to heaven, and hitler was "sending people to heaven", why is he a bad person? the fact that it was all political is just an unnecessary statement.

Hitler was driven by lust for power that made him blind to the rights or wrongs of Christian morals and more for to gain power.


in a way, he was doing what god does every day. he was trying to gain even more power and followers.

-Blade
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

"sending people to heaven"

More of "sending bad people to hell on God's behalf," but other than that, you covered the rest pretty well.
Dubness2
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Dubness2
389 posts
Nomad

then why are we still suffering, even today?

Yes but now we all have the option to accept Jesus into our hearts, believe He died on the cross for our sins, and confess our sins to Him so that we may have everlasting life with Him.

but it was the whole. the entire catholic church (that wasn't killed for disagreeing) agreed. there was only the catholic church back at that time. also, RELIGION is narrow minded in practice.

At this time, there were other factions as well, secretive of course or else be slaughtered by the Inquisition, such as the founders of the Jesuit order, that did not participate in such matters. It wasn't the WHOLE Catholic Church either, just the Nobles and High Priests were apart of this.
beside the point. what my friend argued is that if god wants people to go to heaven, and hitler was "sending people to heaven", why is he a bad person? the fact that it was all political is just an unnecessary statement.

How was it unnecessary? I was stating that's why Hitler is considered "a bad person" in society today. But anyways, God said in the Bible that the Jews will always have a rough time here on Earth so that he can test their faith, for they are God's chosen people no matter what.
in a way, he was doing what god does every day. he was trying to gain even more power and followers.

Yes, but God wasn't abusing people and slaughtering people to do this. He wasn't trying to get people's votes, He was and is trying to let people understand his presence on Earth and allow His grace to be shown.
wolfboystev693
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wolfboystev693
31 posts
Farmer

Im a marthoma (a division of protestant) and i have to say that to believe in God is much better, it not just gives us hope, it actually work's miracles and wonder's for u in unexpected ways.
My best friend is a hindu by birth, but he does not believe in God ( so u cud say he's an atheist), i hav told him lot's of times to convert to christianity wich he refuses, I feel pretty sad for him.
If u are an atheist believe me convert to christianity, it'll work wonders for you, believe me

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

My best friend is a hindu by birth, but he does not believe in God ( so u cud say he's an atheist)


Fail. Hindus aren't Atheists, they have their own gods.

and i have to say that to believe in God is much better, it not just gives us hope,


How is it better? How do you know that your religion is the right one? They all claim to be true, and all have the same evidence. That is, none.

it actually work's miracles and wonder's for u in unexpected ways.


Like what.

, i hav told him lot's of times to convert to christianity wich he refuses, I feel pretty sad for him.


I do as well. I wouldn't want a friend who constantly badgers me to join his/her religion.

If u are an atheist believe me convert to christianity, it'll work wonders for you, believe me


What wonders? And why should we believe you?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Yes but now we all have the option to accept Jesus into our hearts, believe He died on the cross for our sins, and confess our sins to Him so that we may have everlasting life with Him.


Then why the long wait? Why have all though millions go without such an option? Further more there are those who either haven't heard of it still today or those who have and just believe it. You can't accept such people to accept Jesus. Even more then that you have those like me who even If I did think all this was real would find it repugnant and disgusting that I have to accept the death of another human being to be absolved of a sin I never did to begin with.

I find it almost laughable and down right hypocritical how one of the main cornerstones of Christianity is the death of another human being as a blood sacrifice to their God. But those who follow it have the gull to talk down about other religions preforming sacrifices, which are often untrue and how it's immoral to kill.

Yes, but God wasn't abusing people and slaughtering people to do this.


Have you read through the Bible? There are some pretty horrific ways people have been killed by Yahweh.

He was and is trying to let people understand his presence on Earth and allow His grace to be shown.


Do that in an age of information where we can confirm his existence so the world can possibly accept all the bs being fed to us. At the very least he could have gone to a more educated location of the world where they would have kept better records of events, instead of relying on a relatively isolated place with a now dead dialect in use.

it not just gives us hope,


False hope. That would be the problem with such hope. Place your hope in something that isn't real the rug can be pulled out from under you.

it actually work's miracles and wonder's for u in unexpected ways.


Miracles? The only miracle I've see is people buy into this stuff.

If u are an atheist believe me convert to christianity, it'll work wonders for you, believe me


Many atheists were once part of a religion. We found it to be unsupported bull. As for me so long as religion requires faith I'm out.
Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

If I was ever to sully my brain and cram it full of unintelligent religious nonsense then I don't think I'd have the will to go on living. I've never at any point in my life been religious and I don't plan on making a conversion at any point. I'm fine with you holding your beliefs but don't you even dare for a second to tell me that they're right when they're all based on unsupported word-of-mouth accounts from thousands of years ago. Once your 'God' decides to show itself in person, in a form that I can see and talk to and have a conversation with, then I might come consider changing my views... of course, given the atrocities your God committed (nobody ever seems to like to talk about the Old Testament...), I'm still not entirely sure that I'd find it worthy of worship.

Pazx
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Pazx
5,845 posts
Peasant

of course, given the atrocities your God committed (nobody ever seems to like to talk about the Old Testament...), I'm still not entirely sure that I'd find it worthy of worship.


Not taking sides here, but that's a weak argument. I'm sure you're guilty of some pretty awful things yourself. Calling out a possibly non-existant being for something he may or may not have done that you as a person do not agree with is pretty sad.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Not taking sides here, but that's a weak argument. I'm sure you're guilty of some pretty awful things yourself. Calling out a possibly non-existant being for something he may or may not have done that you as a person do not agree with is pretty sad.


It's hardly a weak argument when speaking of a being that is suppose to be perfect (or near so) and all loving (claimed to be). Also I'm sure Avorne or anyone on this forum even at their worst couldn't hold a candle to what this deity is said to have done in the stories about him. This very much put worshiping such a being into question even if it's demonstrated that he is indeed real.
Dubness2
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Dubness2
389 posts
Nomad

I find it almost laughable and down right hypocritical how one of the main cornerstones of Christianity is the death of another human being as a blood sacrifice to their God. But those who follow it have the gull to talk down about other religions preforming sacrifices, which are often untrue and how it's immoral to kill.


Christians do human sacrifices? I haven't heard or seen of any.

At the very least he could have gone to a more educated location of the world where they would have kept better records of events, instead of relying on a relatively isolated place with a now dead dialect in use.


The Roman Empire, the most powerful, intelligent, and longest lasting form of government and Empire ever created on Earth lists these records, Peter, one of the main writers of the New Testament of the Bible, was even a Roman citizen, heck, even Jesus was a Roman citizen. Roman Centurions kept personal records, Pontius Pilate, the Rome's city governor, mentioned as Theophilus in the Bible, Titus Sabinus is his Roman name, kept records.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

The Roman Empire, the most powerful, intelligent, and longest lasting form of government and Empire ever created on Earth lists these records,


Not the most powerful.
Nor is an Empire an entity that possesses intelligence.
Nor was it even remotely a good form of government, given that it was a tyrannical dictatorship essentially.

But that's aside the point. You're making non-sequitors like noboday's business. Just because the Empire was X, does not mean that Jesus was real. Big leap of faith and huge missing links there.
Dubness2
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Dubness2
389 posts
Nomad

Not the most powerful.
Nor is an Empire an entity that possesses intelligence.
Nor was it even remotely a good form of government, given that it was a tyrannical dictatorship essentially.
But that's aside the point. You're making non-sequitors like noboday's business. Just because the Empire was X, does not mean that Jesus was real. Big leap of faith and huge missing links there.


You are jumping to conclusions, I never used it to prove Jesus existed. How was the Roman Empire not the most powerful? They controlled the most land out of any Empire in history, manned the largest Army, and most importantly, lasted the longest. I never said it was a moral "good" form of government, but it worked, and there is no debate in that.

You are making assumptions like nobody's business. I never stated just because the Empire is X that Jesus existed. I was simply stating that an unintelligent human wasn't doing the recording here. For as long as the Roman Empire lasted, there had to be intelligent people running the government, even if they were power hungry, they had to be a bit above the average intellect in order for the Empire to last as long as it did.
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