First of all, I don't care what you believe, we're assuming evolution is true because we're looking at this through an atheist perspective.
Correct, we are assuming evolution is true and we are looking at this from an atheist perspective.
And as for the rest of that first speech of useless pointlessness..... But why was the instinct of the first cell to survive? Why didn't it just say "to heck with surviving" and then stop making food for itself? Yes, we want to survive and reproduce, but WHY? What are we trying to achieve?
As for the second speech of useless pointlessness..... Okay, so about that fancy code. Why are certain things right and wrong on it? And
If any one bring an accusation against a man, and the accused go to the river and leap into the river, if he sink in the river his accuser shall take possession of his house. But if the river prove that the accused is not guilty, and he escape unhurt, then he who had brought the accusation shall be put to death, while he who leaped into the river shall take possession of the house that had belonged to his accuser.
That law is quite confusing. I don't think I'd like to follow it...
If slavery was wrong by Christian eyes, the bible would have said not to do it. It didn't say not to do it. It didn't say to do it, but it gave laws how to do it, not to mention how common it was that people in it did it.
Look in the Bible. In most all cases, except for the case of the Israelites and the Egyptians, the words "slave" and "servant" are almost completely interchangeable. Back then, 'slaves' were paid to do their work. And so "slaves" in the Bible were almost no different than the modern-day waiter/waitress.
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Because it's the way things work.
You just said "We survive and reproduce because we survive and reproduce." That makes no sense, and I shall regard your statement as irrelevant.
Are you really gonna ask about every little thing that is not in the bible? goumas said it, morals and society were there before christianity, so in fact you should be the one to answer all your 'why' questions.
I asked you why slavery was wrong. If you don't answer, I will comprehend it as your loss of the debate.
Nitpicker... if the fish does not worship Kasic, the fish sinned, and thus gets punished. Happy now?
Wrongamundo again. So no, I'm not satisfied. We are not punished because we don't worship God, we are punished because we sin against Him. Now are YOU happy?
Stealing is not somethig that makes us happy.
Why??? Because it is morally wrong? Well then why is it morally wrong??? It's back to my very beginning question: Where do you get your morals?
Plus, we are not bound to do stuff that makes us happy.
So you are not bound to your meaning of life? Therefore your happiness is not really the meaning of life. Thank you for defeating yourself.
You can also strife for long-term happiness, which doesn't necessarily include a lot of short-term happiness.
It is all short-term happiness, kiddo. (Remember this is from an atheist perspective) When you die, you're happiness is over, therefore it is short-term.
Because you're a criminal held back only by the bible.
No. I would not be a criminal in my eyes because all I was doing was seeking my happiness. And up there ^ I just defeated that happiness is not life's meaning! You guys are all just tangled up in your own feet.
Killing is wrong in my eyes, because I generally see life as something valuable.
Why is life valuable?? We're all just walking meat-bags, right? We have no eternal souls, so nothing really matters, right?
.. this religion is sick..
Explain.
What if I don't deny him because I don't believe in him in the first place?
You are denying the Bible and God. If you don't believe them, then you reject them.
To you, killing makes a big difference in the great scheme of things.
Well you're right about one thing.
To me, it doesn't; however it makes a big difference to me.
Why does it make a big difference to you?
Happy now?
I am always happy because I have God. But am I satisfied with your "answers"? Not. One. Blasted. Bit.
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Your own bible disagrees with you.
That bit about slavery was in Leviticus. Not only was that ancient law written to the Israelites only, and: "But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed... Now that faith has come,
we are no longer under the supervision of the law." Galatians 3:22-25 Also "for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
So if you weren't afraid of a book you would steal?
Assuming that I were an atheist, yes, I would do whatever the heck I pleased because there is nowhere to get my morals from.
This should be pretty obvious to anyone with friends or family.
Not really. If I were an atheist, I wouldn't mind if anyone died, I'd just find someone to replace them.
When Jesus says the laws written before he came still stand then he approves of them. Those laws include stoning.
Show me where the Bible says that Jesus approves of stoning.
The bible is supposed to be an all important book that explains everything, a computer is a means of entertainment/work.
Your point is?
There are a number of reasons, especially for stealing.
And you failed to name any of these reasons. Congratulations.
What is this, I don't even...
It's called logic. You should use it some time, pal.
Animal sacrifices weren't always for forgiveness, it was often used to make the gods happy to give them luck in any number of different thing.
That is only in the practice of people who belong to confused, polytheistic religions.
Why? (is fun not the meaning of life)
Because if it were then everyone would be stealing from each other. Try this (AGAIN): They have money. I want to be happy. I can be happy with money. I will take money because my meaning is to be happy.
Except if God already knew it was going to happen it wasn't Eve or Adam's choice.
Yes it was. Adam and Eve did not know what God knew, therefore they had the choice. God doesn't choose for them.
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I could ask you the same thing about the Bible, y'know, the supposedly infallible and perfect word of God - that advocates the death penalty for a number of offences but tells people not to kill and to love thy neighbour.
Refer to the verse in Galatians that I posted above ^ It said that the law is no more.
different morals are gained from different sources
Along with trying to squeeze out of answering my question, You just said: "Morals that are gained from multiple places are morals that are gained from different sources." That makes no sense and I shall dismiss that statement as irrelevant.
I like to keep the whole 'meaning of life' thing as something that evolves and changes depending upon the specific factors acting upon me at the time.
So one day your meaning is to have fun? And the next day your meaning is to be bored? You. Are. Not. Making. A. Single Ounce. Of. Sense.
You assume that there's no difference between getting things (the acquiring of material possessions through legitimate means) and stealing things (illegitimately taking the possessions of others and claiming them as your own) - can you back up this assertion?
I was never assuming that there was no difference. I was showing you how dumb your arguments are, by means of role-played conversation. I didn't assume that there was no difference between legitimately obtaining things, and stealing someone else's things. You are the one who made an incorrect assumption by assuming I assumed something. I shall consider your statements upon this matter, irrelevant.
Because if we lacked those basic instincts then we'd end up killing ourselves out of stupidity and a lack of common sense
And what's wrong with our species' extinction?
Anyway, in my eyes, slavery is wrong as it adversely impacts upon the group/pack dynamic of the human hierachy by forcibly removing the equality of one person or a set of persons and stripping them of their freedom for the sake of another persons gain.
What's wrong about doing something for your gain? Isn't that your "meaning of life?"
Okay, so God gave us free will, but if we use the free will He gave us to do something that God doesn't like... then we get punished. Do you not see how that's punishing us for having/using free will?
Try this example: Someone hands you a hammer and there is a nail in a board in front of you. That someone tells you not to hammer the nail. You hammer the nail anyway. Now by your logic, it was the hammer's fault. Do you not see how outrageously absurd your arguments are?
I think you're missing the parts where "if I take this money from them then they will no longer have it, this will have a detrimental impact upon them, this will be my responsibility, I have caused harm to someone" comes into play.
So? Your meaning of life is YOUR happiness, not theirs. Besides, they can just steal back from you or steal from someone else, right?
Alright, that's it, I've read through the rest of your ignorant nonsense (and frankly that's what it all is) and I can't see the point in arguing with someone who won't accept (or can't understand) that all the things they're arguing have already been addressed repeatedly.
I could also blurt the exact same rant about you as well.
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You believe that killing, thieving and so on does make a difference in the great scheme of things, because you believe there's a great scheme of things. This is what your book tells you.
Right.
My consciousness subjectively values life high enough to not want to end it randomly, and it values possessions and order/decency high enough to not go around stealing things
Those feeling from your consciousness are feelings of the basic morals that God built into us.
I possess a certain amount of empathy and value respect of others high enough (knowing others may also highly value life, at least of people close to them) to not want to hurt them by killing someone.
Why do they value life? For happiness? And the reason why happiness can't be a meaning to life has been discussed about a thousand times over.
Plus my reason tells me that I'll experience psychical repercussions if killing someone.
Why? In your eyes, they are nothing but talking, walking meat-bags. What's wrong if they die?
What you must keep from all that is the very important nuance between objective and subjective. Yes I do think that life has no objective meaning, I do however have subjective expectations of life, like being overall happy (I know I'll never be happy all the time, and I don't want to be), contributing to scientifical advances, raising a family etc.
If you don't think life has objective meaning, why don't you end it? Because you want to be happy? Happiness is not a solid meaning of life.
- I hope this answered most of your questions about the why of things.
It didn't.
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More then that, though this shows you weren't paying attention.
I was paying attention enough to notice your fallacy that you have yet to back up. Now then. How do you get your morals from two different places?
As for how that's like asking how could I learn about history from two different history books. I can take in the information and assimilate it into me.
I'm not asking "how" I'm asking "why". Why are we supposed to survive and thrive?
This would be quite long to list everything but here are a few. (no particular order)
As I mentioned the care of my pets.
The gaining of knowledge.
Getting to spend time with my girlfriend.
Being able to enjoy pleasurable sensations.
Art work has had a lot of meaning in my life.
Those are all temporary things. 300 years from now, no one is going to care. All your meaning will be gone like a cloud of steam dispersing among the air. Yes I to will die, but my meaning is to change the eternal souls of people. In 300 years, the people that I lead to Christ will be thankful that they did not go to hell because of me. My meaning is much much more powerful than yours.
Because of this the harm done to by others I can experience as if it happened to me. So causing harm to another person can in turn negatively affect me. This was explained to you.
Why will you feel bad about stealing? Because you have caused harm to others. Why should you not cause harm to others? Because inflicting harm to someone is a sin. You feel guilty about harming them because you have sinned. But you're and atheist, so you don't believe in sin, so you shouldn't feel guilty. So answer me this: Why do you feel guilty?
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Afterburner, I'm going to say this up front, I'm getting really, really sick of you just repeating the same question. I'm not going to respond to you anymore after this unless you move onto something else. We've answered you 5 TIMES now.
Kasic, I am asking so many times because I have not received a legit answer. And thanks to your illegitimate answers, this is going in circles.
I DID ANSWER THIS. YOU QUOTED THAT ANSWER.
Oh. So I did. But it was a ways down a bit and I answered it a bit after I answered the last part. So I apologize for my mistakes.
Leaking hole?
It was an analogy.
What, that you think Atheists can't have a meaning of life? That you define "leasure" as raping/pillaging/stealing? I'm sorry, I'm not a sociopath as you would appear to be, because I don't find harming people fun.
I said: "Why else do people r-ape, pillage, and steal? Just so they can get thrown in jail?" Then you say:
Greed, rage, anger, and other such strong emotions can lead to this. Pleasure might be involved, but it's not the driving force.
Dude, you are the one who is not thinking. People are greedy because they want more things to make them happy. Do you understand? Why might these people be enraged or angry? Most likely because someone wronged them first. And now they want revenge. Revenge will bring them pleasure and satisfaction because our society believes that two wrongs make a right.. But you guys really have no definition of right and wrong, so..... I'm confused, but not nearly as much as you are.
My personal "meaning of life" is to learn about the world and enjoy our time here (This DOES NOT mean raping/pillaging/stealing, etc)
But your meaning is still temporary, therefore pointless.
And I'd appreciate it if you got it through your thick skull that stealing/raping/pillaging/murder etc AREN'T everyone's definition of pleasure as they would appear to you to be.
Those evil things do not bring me pleasure because I know that they are wrong. Now then... can you give me real answers?
Sigh. IF we had free will, that would mean we could choose. Just not believing in God wouldn't be a sin then, because we would have the choice to do so or not.
Refer to my hammer and nail analogy above about this matter ^
Are you seriously a sociopath? Do you know the meaning of the words, "sympathy" "ity" "empathy?" Have you felt those before
No. Yes. And yes. I have pity for their eternal soul. You have pity for their temporary body. So why should you care if they die? You know their bodies not going to last, so why prolong the inevitable?
But I understand why we have them, to keep general order and peace because of the actions of stupid and selfish people.
Why do we need to keep general order?
I've never felt an urge to steal something. I wouldn't find it pleasurable, because I know how that person would feel to find it missing.
I responded to MageGrayWolf with this: "Why will you feel bad about stealing? Because you have caused harm to others. Why should you not cause harm to others? Because inflicting harm to someone is a sin. You feel guilty about harming them because you have sinned. But you're and atheist, so you don't believe in sin, so you shouldn't feel guilty. So answer me this: Why do you feel guilty?"
Now, move on. We've all answered you. If you want us to go in further, DON'T PICK THE SAME THING 200 TIMES IN YOUR POST AND ASK THE SAME THING AGAIN AND AGAIN.
I will keep asking until I get legitimate answers.
You sound like a 7 year old brat who thinks it's funny to ask "why" after everything.
Or maybe I am seeking more knowledge about atheist philosophy.
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Once again, I run short on time. So... I hope my points clear things up for you fellas and I will try to answer the rest of your fallacies later.
