I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
says the one who has now claimed to be wiser, understand more, and know how to better create and manage a universe than God
He already has. Why? Because the people in this thread are REAL.
how do you know what He has and hasn't done? God tends to like to remain anonymous. and if He didn't do anything, where have we needed it? we're all alive and well
Sure we are.
He can, but He chooses not to because He wants us to have free will
Well than he is deluded, and therefore, not omnipotent. Humans have no free will. A study even confirmed it. Humans are controlled purely by synapses. End of discussion.
There is as much proof that there is God as there is "roof" that there isn't. if you want some, just google it (there may be some loose thinking on the surface, just as there is for anything, so if you want solid answers you may want to spend more than the standard 30 seconds looking)
I would say the same to you. There is enough proof in science that things were done naturally and without divine intervention to prove that the bible is wrong on many fields. Providing the large gaping hole of doubt surrounding his capabilities and existence.
how do you know what He has and hasn't done? God tends to like to remain anonymous. and if He didn't do anything, where have we needed it? we're all alive and well
In this same respect you can't claim that God did anything. Claiming faith isn't going to cut it either. You're trying to believe in fantasy and support something unsupportable. You want to do otherwise you have to lose the faith and find facts.
i don't claim to know why God did this the way He did. maybe it was because this would make a more lasting impression on the people. maybe it was because this gave Him an oppurtunity to let people see His son, fulfill prophecies, start the Christian religion, the possibilities for justification on God's part are endless. The end result is the same, and it is not that He couldn�t do something, it is that he found a better way to do it
No you don't get to hind behind ignorance here. No there possibilities aren't endless there are no justifications for it. Saying otherwise is just kin to the battered wife syndrome of Christianity where you try to excuse any number of negative actions. Finally no, claiming that requiring someone to die when it wasn't needed is not going to fly as a defense and is far from a "better way" then not using such methods. Even if we were to accept it as such this still doesn't excuse the countless animal sacrifices this God requested only out of the sheer enjoyment he got from it.
who are we to decidewhat is and sn't a sin? how do we know? if something that may be viewed as a sin is justidie, is it really a sin? not for us to decide, i think.
In many of these cases we don't need to. According to your God's own codes of what is and is not a sin, this God has broken many of them. He can be held up to his own standards and fails.
He could, but it is so much better to do what He does now and cast it on the crossbeforethat person enters Heaven
How is it better? Given your response to my points it seems you don't know. Unless you can give an answer you don't get to use this argument, which appears to be based on faith, which is nothing.
and for future responses to this, I believe you get to heaven by believing in Him, not by having no sin
it was not perfection that bred sin, it was free will that bred sin
These were regarded as perfect beings in a perfect word. Even with the free will to choice to do wrong a perfect being would still make the correct choice. Sin is regarded as wrong, a wrong choice. A perfect being could not doing that. So out of this perfection we get imperfect beings. This as is said is in contradiction.
says the one who has now claimed to be wiser, understand more, and know how to better create and manage a universe than God
I was going to skip over this one, but what the hell. Given the same powers I wouldn't be surprised if he could do better.
Sorry dude, you don't have those powers, only God does.
I wouldn't be surprised if he could do better.
Oh really, try to come up with a new species and show me some results. Ya, create life from nothing. Just say, "appear!". Ya, it's simple.
Humans have no free will.
No, they do. God didn't create humans like slave robots that he controls. No. He gave us free will, to follow Him, or the devil. He gave us free will to sin.
Anyways, for those who think that the Bible got corrupt over the long period of time...well let's compare the dead sea scrolls that were found to the ones we have today. They match. So it hasn't changed.
how do you know what He has and hasn't done? God tends to like to remain anonymous. and if He didn't do anything, where have we needed it? we're all alive and well
Tell that to the millions of Jews slaughtered in the holocaust. Or the countless people that died in the first war. Or the people who survived Hiroshima or Nagasaki. I can go on forever.
H
e can, but He chooses not to because He wants us to have free will
So he just let all those manic killers and dictators and what-not to have free wills, so they can kill a LOT of people?
who are we to decidewhat is and sn't a sin?
Well, the bible was written by humans. I'd say we are the ones that proposed what's a sin and what's not.
and for future responses to this, I believe you get to heaven by believing in Him, not by having no sin
Hitler was Christian (part Jewish too, ironically enough). Does this mean he was accepted into heaven, even after the countless lives he ended?
it was not perfection that bred sin, it was free will that bred sin
Then what's the point of God giving us free will if we're just gonna bread sin?
Which makes your God incredibility petty displaying qualities found in narcissistic personality disorder and even possibly what could be referred to as malignant narcissism.
So he just let all those manic killers and dictators and what-not to have free wills, so they can kill a LOT of people?
I'd say a possible answer to that from a christian point of view is that earthly life has no real value, what seems more important to god is how we decide, not how long and how well-to-do it is. So he let's everyone have free will and will only open his doors for those who irrationally believed in him, leaving those who lost faith after all that misery be the big loosers.
Hitler was Christian (part Jewish too, ironically enough). Does this mean he was accepted into heaven, even after the countless lives he ended?
Which basically renders the concept of free will useless in regard to sins, don't you think?
Sorry dude, you don't have those powers, only God does.
Of course we don't have magic man fictional powers power. That was an "if he did" statement. Also I wasn't talking of myself there I was speaking of Avorne who was the person ShinyCowBeast was replying to.
Oh really, try to come up with a new species and show me some results. Ya, create life from nothing. Just say, "appear!". Ya, it's simple.
Give me magic man fictional powers and I will. I'll come up with all sorts of interesting stuff.
No, they do. God didn't create humans like slave robots that he controls. No. He gave us free will, to follow Him, or the devil. He gave us free will to sin.
Well there are some arguments that put into question the existence of free will, but they are a bit beyond the scope of this topic.
Anyways, for those who think that the Bible got corrupt over the long period of time...well let's compare the dead sea scrolls that were found to the ones we have today. They match. So it hasn't changed.
Okay first line if Genesis, just to point out one simple one.
(KJV) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Dead sea scrolls Hebrew translation
in the beginning Gods created the sky and the earth. (heaven and sky is interchangeable)
in the beginning Gods created the sky and the earth. (heaven and sky is interchangeable)
Not interchangeably, same word in hebrew. The definition depends on context, which there isn't much here, but you can guess it means "sky" because it's contrasting "earth". Another case of this is "slave" and "servant". I'm not sure if it's the same case in the new testament, those were written in Greek.
Not interchangeably, same word in hebrew. The definition depends on context, which there isn't much here, but you can guess it means "sky" because it's contrasting "earth". Another case of this is "slave" and "servant". I'm not sure if it's the same case in the new testament, those were written in Greek.
Another case of this is "slave" and "servant". I'm not sure if it's the same case in the new testament, those were written in Greek.
It's a similar problem. They had one word meaning "one who serves" that could be translated to either slave or servant. There were levels of slavery in Ancient Greece, so whether they would be considered as paid servants in today's terms depends on the context.
Ancient Greek is the stage of the Greek language in the periods spanning the times c. 9th â" 6th centuries BC, (known as Archaic), c. 5th â" 4th centuries BC (Classical), and the c. 3rd century BC â" 6th century AD (Hellenistic) of ancient Greece and the ancient world; being predated in the 2nd millennium BC by Mycenaean Greek. The language of the Hellenistic phase is known as Koine (common) or Biblical Greek, the language from the late period onward has no considerable difference from Medieval Greek. Koine is regarded as a separate historical stage of its own, although in its earlier form it closely resembles the Classical. Prior to the Koine period, Greek of the classic and earlier periods included several regional dialects.
