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Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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You're missing my point. A baby is stupid and doesn't know any better. God is omnipotent.
Then he would know a way to save everyone, instead of sending people to hell. Why would an all loving, all powerful, all knowing, entity allow sin to get in his way? Why would he allow people to burn forever?
Oh really, name one thing that God can't do.
He can;t control our will and can't control a person for we have free will.
A baby would do it because the button is shiny. God will do it because he means to.
That's fantastic. Now if you can explain how he can get away with that and still be called perfect, which was an earlier dispute in this thread, that would be even more fantastic. Because apparently, his performing these actions aren't sinful, or his followers are just pulling the wool over their eyes.
Oh, and the earlier points addressed in the last page. We can't have those being forgotten.
Lets look at it like this then:
1. God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient
2. God cares for each of his creations
3. God, through the application of his all-encompassing power, could choose to deal with the faults of his creations in such a way as to lead them back to the right path or punish them individually/fairly for their misdeeds.
4. Instead, almost all sins are treated as equal, and all sinners who are not redeemed before their death are sent to suffer eternally in Hell.
5. This contradicts either the idea that God cares for his creations or that he has the power to punish them fairly and based upon the scale of their misdeeds.
Then he would know a way to save everyone, instead of sending people to hell. Why would an all loving, all powerful, all knowing, entity allow sin to get in his way? Why would he allow people to burn forever?
Because Heaven is perfect, and He can allow no sin into it.
He can;t control our will and can't control a person for we have free will.
really? last time I checked God was OMNIPOTENT and he can do anything aside from allowing sin into Heaven.
It's getting late here, and my laptop is losing power. Got to sign off for today.
really? last time I checked God was OMNIPOTENT and he can do anything aside from allowing sin into Heaven.
He needs to remove himself from the premises at once then. I'm tired of you and the others dodging the issue. God has killed so many, regardless of the reasons why, and yet none of the sin and blame is shifted to him. Why follow someone who hypocritically sins himself, who has the ability to deal with situations without sinning?
last time I checked God was
Last time I checked no one has been able to prove his existence, so you claiming what he is is groundless.
Arguing about what God's reasons for things are is no more meaningful than discussing what a Unicorn's favorite snack is; irrelevant because they do not, in fact, exist.
If you wish to challenge this claim, then by all means do so. Prove that God exists, or give evidence for it that at least makes it not a crack-pot idea.
But since they are the same, they were both crucified willingly.
Willing or not the statement that an all powerful all loving being required a blood sacrifice in order to say "you're forgiven" is in contradiction. Such a being with such power and mercy would have no need for such a requirement and could easily forgive everyone for what ever misdeed this God perceives them of being guilty of.
It's interesting the common belief is that this God spoke the world into existence yet he can't speak forgiveness into existence, that for this God requires death.
Since this God requires death in order to forgive I would go as far as to say that I and most of my fellow human beings are by magnitudes more moral then this monster Yahweh. As I and most of my fellow humans are capable of forgiven even some of the worst atrocities against us without the payment of innocent blood being spilled, regardless of that innocence willingness to go through with it.
Because Heaven is perfect, and He can allow no sin into it.
God is bound by his own rules? But he's God. By saying can, you are implying that God doesn't have the ability to allow sin into Heaven, not may, as in he doesn't wish to or has no permission to allow them. But then again, he has sinned himself, so he needs to move.
really? last time I checked God was OMNIPOTENT and he can do anything aside from allowing sin into Heaven.
He needs to remove himself from the premises at once then. I'm tired of you and the others dodging the issue. God has killed so many, regardless of the reasons why, and yet none of the sin and blame is shifted to him. Why follow someone who hypocritically sins himself, who has the ability to deal with situations without sinning?
It's getting late here, and my laptop is losing power. Got to sign off for today.
Be sure to hurry back; we aren't finished.
Be sure to hurry back we aren't finished.
You sure have chewed him up good. and theirs still a long list of dodged questions and when they answer they're partial responses.
Last time I checked no one has been able to prove his existence, so you claiming what he is is groundless.
Unless the bible that's been changed a-lot of times counts theirs no proof at all.
Because Heaven is perfect, and He can allow no sin into it.
Yes he can. He is omnipotent. He could at least magically cast it out, using his omnipotence. Or is he not omnipotent?
really? last time I checked God was OMNIPOTENT and he can do anything aside from allowing sin into Heaven.
Last I checked being OMNIPOTENT would allow people with sin to get into heaven.
Wanted to add this to the end of my post but couldn't find it right away.
Christopher Hitchens - Vicarious Redemption
Because Heaven is perfect, and He can allow no sin into it.
This is an interesting and contradictory system the Christians have created. They claim a place or thing that is perfect, such as heaven or humans. Then claim that perfect thing bred sin, a mistake. We see it in their claims of our origins, claiming that we were perfect but sinned and we see it in there claims of heaven claiming it was perfect and had no sin yet bred Satan and his minions, their very epitome of what they regard as evil and sinful.
Well, lets face it, if such a being did exist - it's obviously unable to properly use the powers it has. It certainly doesn't seem to be able to use that supposed 'wisdom and understanding' very well
says the one who has now claimed to be wiser, understand more, and know how to better create and manage a universe than God
and has done diddly-squat over the last 2000 years to protect it's supposed chosen people.
how do you know what He has and hasn't done? God tends to like to remain anonymous. and if He didn't do anything, where have we needed it? we're all alive and well
REMOVING THE SIN OF OTHERS WITHOUT SINNING HIMSELF
destroyed with Jesus on the cross.
gone.
nowhere in sight.(or out of sight)
Apparently ignore sin without killing someone.
He was able to ignore Elijah's and Enoch's sins without killing them. In fact, they never died.
He can;t control our will and can't control a person for we have free will
He can, but He chooses not to because He wants us to have free will
really? last time I checked God was OMNIPOTENT and he can do anything aside from allowing sin into Heaven.
just to rephrase this, because that would mean He is not omnipotent, He can, but does not because that would defeat the purpose of Heaven
Such a being with such power and mercy would have no need for such a requirement and could easily forgive everyone for what ever misdeed this God perceives them of being guilty of.
i don't claim to know why God did this the way He did. maybe it was because this would make a more lasting impression on the people. maybe it was because this gave Him an oppurtunity to let people see His son, fulfill prophecies, start the Christian religion, the possibilities for justification on God's part are endless. The end result is the same, and it is not that He couldnât do something, it is that he found a better way to do it
Why follow someone who hypocritically sins himself, who has the ability to deal with situations without sinning?
since you practically begging for a response here you go.
who are we to decidewhat is and sn't a sin? how do we know? if something that may be viewed as a sin is justidie, is it really a sin? not for us to decide, i think.
Unless the bible that's been changed a-lot of times counts theirs no proof at all.
There is as much proof that there is God as there is "roof" that there isn't. if you want some, just google it (there may be some loose thinking on the surface, just as there is for anything, so if you want solid answers you may want to spend more than the standard 30 seconds looking)
Last I checked being OMNIPOTENT would allow people with sin to get into heaven.
He could, but it is so much better to do what He does now and cast it on the crossbeforethat person enters Heaven
and for future responses to this, I believe you get to heaven by believing in Him, not by having no sin
claiming it was perfect and had no sin yet bred Satan and his minions, their very epitome of what they regard as evil and sinful.
it was not perfection that bred sin, it was free will that bred sin
how do you know what He has and hasn't done? God tends to like to remain anonymous. and if He didn't do anything, where have we needed it? we're all alive and well
Chosen people = Jews. They've been persecuted for 2000 years, moving from one place to another. That was some protection.
who are we to decidewhat is and sn't a sin? how do we know? if something that may be viewed as a sin is justidie, is it really a sin? not for us to decide, i think.
The Ten Commandments explicitly forbids killing. Yet God has proven himself a genocidal monster, for example by ordering the killing of the Caanites. Also, list of people God killed. Apparently, so on one hand, God forbids killing, but He condones it too? Double standards.
I believe you get to heaven by believing in Him, not by having no sin
I can kill as many people as I want, pillage as many towns as I want, but if I believe in Him I can go? Fantastic. God certainly is very morally lax.
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