ForumsWEPRTheism and Atheism

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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

Its very easy for an atheist to argue with someone with religion.


just as easy as when 1 lets say.... christian argues the jewish, muslim or hindu religion.
BRAAINZz
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BRAAINZz
787 posts
Nomad

How about explaining how the universe came to be and how something can come out of nothingness.


It isn't necessarily "Nothingness" there most likely was something there before, and science is trying to prove it, however challenging it may be. Finding out what was before everything we can hope to date isn't exactly grade 1 math.
ComradeWolf
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ComradeWolf
358 posts
Nomad

Theism and Atheism aren't too much different in my eyes to be honest. Both are belief systems. One is belief in a supernatural existances, spirituality among other things, and the other is the complete rejection of anything spiritual/supernatural.

The common underlying trait of both? Both often have ignorant people who will reject anything that goes against their beliefs. I am not a thiest, or an athiest. I am agnostic, I am open to beliefs. I don't have faith, I am not particulary spiritual but if there is undeniable proof of a supernatural being or spiritual entity then I will believe it. Science isn't really a belief system, more of an experimentation system.

As for most people on here, no one here is truly athiest with the exception of a few individuals, your agnostics as well. That also being said, lots of people also are prejeduiced towards theists as well, so go figure.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Theism and Atheism aren't too much different in my eyes to be honest. Both are belief systems.


BS. What belief system does atheism have? Belief in the Buddha? Many "religions" don't have gods, so they are technically atheists, weather you believe in science or magic spirits. Atheism has no system of belief.

One is belief in a supernatural existances, spirituality among other things, and the other is the complete rejection of anything spiritual/supernatural.


As I said, that is not true. Atheists don't believe in god. That is what an atheist is. Atheists can, and many do, believe in spirits and the like, they just don't believe in god. That is all that it means.

The common underlying trait of both? Both often have ignorant people who will reject anything that goes against their beliefs


Perhaps that is because their belief is correct?

I am not a thiest, or an athiest. I am agnostic, I am open to beliefs.


Are you now? Could I get you to change your mind on that?

I don't have faith, I am not particulary spiritual but if there is undeniable proof of a supernatural being or spiritual entity then I will believe it. Science isn't really a belief system, more of an experimentation system.


Wait, so you believe in the supernatural then?

Either way, pretty much every atheist would also become theists if their was undeniable proof.

As for most people on here, no one here is truly athiest with the exception of a few individuals, your agnostics as well.


...Atheists don't believe in gods. If you don't believe in a god, you are an atheists. How can few people be true atheists?

That also being said, lots of people also are prejeduiced towards theists as well, so go figure.


Eh? What do you mean?
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,255 posts
Regent

@ComradeWolf

I think your notion of atheism is impregnated by what one can consider a militant atheist, but this is just a bad overgeneralization. Probably due to your personal experience, which is understandable, but atheism doesn't mean you completely reject anything supernatural; many atheist do, but it's not an integer part of atheism, at least not at the base. The one and only thing that atheism defines, is the lack of belief in a deity; that's all. As such, it isn't a belief system per se; people like bhuddists can be atheists and yet adhere to a belief system like bhuddism.

You're agnostic? Agnostic theist or agnostic atheist? Being open to everything is not exclusive of a personal belief in a deity, or lack thereof. If you don't believe in a deity, yet are open to a possible existence, then you're likely agnostic atheist. Get what I mean? Noone is purely agnostic. And most atheist wouldn't deny a deity if there was consistent evidence for it, just saying. In fact if a deity was evidenced thoroughly and generally accepted, belief would fade and the only thing left would be adherence or rejection.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Theism and Atheism aren't too much different in my eyes to be honest. Both are belief systems. One is belief in a supernatural existances, spirituality among other things, and the other is the complete rejection of anything spiritual/supernatural


What you're thinking of is explicit atheism, which is the rejection of any god. There is also implicit atheism, which is simply the absence of theistic belief. You can also be explicit about some religious claims while implicit about others.

The common underlying trait of both? Both often have ignorant people who will reject anything that goes against their beliefs. I am not a thiest, or an athiest. I am agnostic, I am open to beliefs. I don't have faith, I am not particulary spiritual but if there is undeniable proof of a supernatural being or spiritual entity then I will believe it. Science isn't really a belief system, more of an experimentation system.


Agnostic is not a position of belief but o knowledge. This is stating that one is without knowledge of whether supernatural things exist or not.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/atheistjokes/?action=view&current=nb2mO.jpg
ComradeWolf
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ComradeWolf
358 posts
Nomad

To clarify things on my part, I was referring to a certain interpretation of atheism. Athiesm, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Athiesm is a rejection of all spiritual entities. And what I mean by spiritiual entities is gods, dieties, angels what have you.
And while not in total rejection of the supernatural, they are often skeptical of it.

While agnosticism, is not the rejection of faith or any belief system, rather the investigation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic

I personally consider myself agnostic under these judgements.

I am open to faith and hearing about it, though I do have skepticism regarding religion. I do not pracitce a religion currently.
I do not believe in the supernatural, I believe in scientific validation and experimentation. I only state that I am open to hearing of the supernatural is that there may be a possibility of a supernatural being existing. However there is no evidence that truly supports it yet. If someone, through valid methods of experimentation and finding undeniable evidence and proof, proves it, I would believe it.

[quote]You're agnostic? Agnostic theist or agnostic atheist? Being open to everything is not exclusive of a personal belief in a deity, or lack thereof. If you don't believe in a deity, yet are open to a possible existence, then you're likely agnostic atheist. Get what I mean? Noone is purely agnostic. And most atheist wouldn't deny a deity if there was consistent evidence for it, just saying. In fact if a deity was evidenced thoroughly and generally accepted, belief would fade and the only thing left would be adherence or rejection.


You have a good point there, and I ment the same thing when I said no one here is a true total athiest. A true atheist is the outright rejection of a diety etc. Even if there is undeniable proof. Of course real world people who claim atheism would as you said change their minds if there was consistent proof, which there is not.

As for myself I am a agnostic athiest then if you will. I am open to hearing about beliefs, though that does not mean I necessarily agree with religion or what not, its just that im willing to hear.

314d1, what I mean by how people on this particular forum are prejeduiced towards thiests is from my observation of how people have treated religous folk on here. I've seen bullying and just plain rude behaviour warranted towards them. Some cases can of course, be justified on terms of ignorance in a discussion, and some of it is just outright skepticism and prejeduice towards anything involving a religion.

BS. What belief system does atheism have?


I have already stated that. The belief that there is NO gods, dieties or spiritual entities. When I say spiritual entites, that includes angels, demons, spirits, ghosts or any type of being associated with religion/mythology what have you. I never said Athiesm is a religion. It is the belief of rejecting it, which may be based on the individuals choice or their opinion that is based on the lack of evidence.

And I say there isn't too much difference between atheism and theism is not so much for the belief systems, which are polar opposites, but more so of the behaviour. Many athiests, like theists preach their ideal. They wish to change the opinion of people, and overall beliefs.

Many, (but not all, far from it) are also ignorant of different types of belief systems/ ideals. This is based on my observation throughout my life, both online and offline.

Thats why I find both similar in aspects. Due to behaviour.

I hope that clarified what I was getting at for you guys.
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

To clarify things on my part, I was referring to a certain interpretation of atheism. Athiesm, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism


Ah of course. I knew you where talking about bad title.

While agnosticism, is not the rejection of faith or any belief system, rather the investigation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic



*Shakes head knowledgeably* I never thought bad title would tell so much...


I am open to faith and hearing about it, though I do have skepticism regarding religion. I do not pracitce a religion currently.


Then you are probably an agnostic (Without knowledge) atheists (One who doesn't believe in god), or "weak" atheist.

You have a good point there, and I ment the same thing when I said no one here is a true total athiest. A true atheist is the outright rejection of a diety etc. Even if there is undeniable proof. Of course real world people who claim atheism would as you said change their minds if there was consistent proof, which there is not.


Your the only one here using that definition, perhaps we should just eliminate all the unnecessary words in the english language? Everyone, use New Speak from now on.

314d1, what I mean by how people on this particular forum are prejeduiced towards thiests is from my observation of how people have treated religous folk on here. I've seen bullying and just plain rude behaviour warranted towards them. Some cases can of course, be justified on terms of ignorance in a discussion, and some of it is just outright skepticism and prejeduice towards anything involving a religion.


Bullying and plane rude behavior? Skepticism is valid against insane theories, as it should be. Skepticism is necessary against religions that are completely insane, why would you even state that it is a bad thing? What do you mean by prejudice?

I have already stated that. The belief that there is NO gods, dieties or spiritual entities.


It is not a belief that there is no gods. It is not believing in gods. Think of it this way, stamp collecting is a hobby. Not stamp collecting is not a hobby.

When I say spiritual entites, that includes angels, demons, spirits, ghosts or any type of being associated with religion/mythology what have you. I never said Athiesm is a religion. It is the belief of rejecting it, which may be based on the individuals choice or their opinion that is based on the lack of evidence.


No it doesn't. Many religions are atheistic, they believe in spirits and the after life with no god. It isn't the belief rejecting gods, it is simply not believing in gods.

And I say there isn't too much difference between atheism and theism is not so much for the belief systems, which are polar opposites, but more so of the behaviour. Many athiests, like theists preach their ideal. They wish to change the opinion of people, and overall beliefs.


Everyone wants to change the opinion of someone. That is like saying the ocean is not that different than the sky because they are both blue.

Many, (but not all, far from it) are also ignorant of different types of belief systems/ ideals. This is based on my observation throughout my life, both online and offline.


It is not necessary to know everything that is wrong if you are right.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Skepticism is valid against insane theories, as it should be. Skepticism is necessary against religions that are completely insane, why would you even state that it is a bad thing? What do you mean by prejudice?


Something which you do not appear to understand 314d1, Skepticism is not the same as derision. Questioning people's claims is very different from berating them over the tiniest things that aren't relevant or even what they said.

The belief that there is NO gods, dieties or spiritual entities.


*The lack of a belief in any gods, deities, or spiritual entities.

Fixed it for you.

Many athiests, like theists preach their ideal. They wish to change the opinion of people, and overall beliefs.


Rarely have I seen an atheist going around preaching the value of not having a belief in something. Change that to never, actually. The closest it comes to that would be a derogatory sneer that someone believes in nonsense.

I personally consider myself agnostic under these judgements.

I am open to faith and hearing about it, though I do have skepticism regarding religion. I do not pracitce a religion currently.
I do not believe in the supernatural, I believe in scientific validation and experimentation. I only state that I am open to hearing of the supernatural is that there may be a possibility of a supernatural being existing. However there is no evidence that truly supports it yet. If someone, through valid methods of experimentation and finding undeniable evidence and proof, proves it, I would believe it.


Then you're an agnostic atheist, someone who does not have a belief in a supernatural entity/god but does not claim to know none exist.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

To clarify things on my part, I was referring to a certain interpretation of atheism. Athiesm, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism


From your own source.
"Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist."

While agnosticism, is not the rejection of faith or any belief system, rather the investigation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic


Again from your own source.
"Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claimsâ"especially claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, but also other religious and metaphysical claimsâ"are unknown and (so far as can be judged) unknowable."

This use of agnostic we get a problem when it's tried to be used in this way.
"In the popular sense, an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively."

This mis-characterizes atheism as just being active disbelief and mis-characterizes agnosticism as a position of belief. Even when it was first coined it was intended to refer to ones lack of knowledge of the existence of a god. The reason for this popular ideology is because until about 200 years ago it was thought one couldn't simply lack belief in a god. Also the guy who coined agnostic in such a sense did so around 150 years ago. The idea of atheism just being lack of belief and not active disbelief didn't start really catching on til the early 20th century. So he felt he had no descriptor for his belief position and instead used his position of knowledge.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

This was focused on theists new to making videos in the debates and arguments with atheists on youtube, but a good number of these suggestions would work very well here as well. So I would suggest any theist wanting to get into a debate with the atheists here to use these suggestions.

To the new guys

09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

Christians tell me God loves us all. (even the unfaithful) However, if you take the bible's word for it, God is histories biggest mass killer.

SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cummulative Total
God drowns everyone on earth (except Noah and his family) Genesis 7:23, BT 30,000,000? 30,000,000
God rains fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone. Gen.19:24, BT 1000? 30,001,000
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 30,001,001
Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 30,001,002
Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 30,001,003
7th Egyptian Plague: Hail Exodus 9:25, BT 30,000? 30,031,003
God kills every Egyptian firstborn child. Ex.12:29-30, BT 500,000? 30,531,003
God drowns Egyptian army Ex.14:28, BT 1000? 30,532,003
God and Moses help Joshua kill the Amalekites Ex.17:13, BT 1000? 30,533,003
For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 30,536,003
Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 30,536,005
A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 30,536,006
God burned to death an unknown number for complaining Numbers 11:1, BT 100? 30,536,106
God sent "a very great plague" for complaining about the food. Num.11:33, BT 10,000? 30,546,106
God killed those who murmured with a plague. Num.14:35-36, BT 100? 30,546,206
A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 30,546,207
Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 30,546,219
Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 30,546,469
For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 30,561,169
Massacre of the Aradites Num.21:1-3, BT 3000? 30,564,169
For complaining about the lack of food and water, God sent fiery serpents to bite the people, and many of them died. Num.21:6, BT 100? 30,564,269
God delivers the Bashanites into Moses' hands and Moses kills everyone "until there was none left alive." Num.21:34-35, BT 1000? 30,565,269
For "committing *****dom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 30,589,269
Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 30,679,269
The slaughter of the Anakim, the childen of Esau, and the Horim Deuteronomy 2:21-22 5000? 30,684,269
God hardened the king of Heshbon's heart so that the Israelites could massacre his people. (included several cities) Dt.2:33-34, BT 3000? 30,687,269
God delievered the king of Bashan so that the Israelites could massacre his people. Dt.3:3-6 60,000? 30,747,269
Massacre of Jericho Joshua 6:21, BT 1000? 30,748,269
God tells Joshua to stone to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 30,748,274
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 30,760,274
God slaughters the Amorites and even chases them "along the way" as they try to escape. Joshua 10:10-11, BT 1000? 30,761,274
Joshua kills 5 kings and hangs their dead bodies on trees Joshua 10:24-26, BT 5 30,761,279
Massacre of 7 cities Joshua 10:28-42, BT 7000? 30,768,279
God delivers the Hazorites. Joshua 11:8-12, BT 1000? 30,769,279
Massacre of the Anakim Joshua 11:20-21, BT 1000? 30,770,279
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 30,780,279
Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 30,780,280
God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 30,790,280
Massacre of the Canaanites Jg.4:15, BT 1000? 30,791,280
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 30,911,280
God delivered the Ammonites to Jephthah to slaughter. Jg.11:32-33, BT 1000? 30,912,280
The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 30,912,310
The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 30,913,310
Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 30,916,310
"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 30,941,410
More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 30,966,410
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19, BT 50,070 31,016,480
God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12, BT 20 31,016,500
God forces the Philistine soldiers to kill each other. 1 Sam.14:20, BT 1000? 31,017,500
God orders Saul to kill every Amalekite man, women, and child. 1 Sam.15:2-3, BT 1000? 31,018,500
Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33, BT 1 31,018,501
God delivers the Philistines. 1 Sam.23:2-5 1000? 31,019,501
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 31,019,502
God delivers the Philistines to David (again). 2 Sam.5:19, 25 1000? 31,020,502
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 31,020,503
David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Samuel 12:14-18 1 31,020,504
God sent a three-year famine because of something Saul did. 2 Sam.21:1 5000? 31,025,504
Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 31,025,511
From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 31,095,511
A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 31,095,512
Baasha killed everyone in the house of Jeroboam "according to the saying of the Lord." 1 Kings 15:29 1000? 31,096,512
Zimri killed everyone in the house of Baasha "according to the word of the Lord." 1 Kg.16:11-12 1000? 31,097,512
Religious leaders killed in a prayer contest 1 Kg.18:22-40 450 31,097,962
God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 31,197,962
God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 31,224,962
God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 31,224,963
Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kings 1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 31,224,964
Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 31,225,066
God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 31,225,108
Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 31,225,109
God calls for a seven year famine. 2 Kg.8:1 10,000? 31,235,109
Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 31,235,110
Jehu killed "all that remained unto Ahab in Samaria ... according to the saying of the Lord" 2 Kg.10:16-17 100? 31,235,210
God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 31,235,213
Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 31,420,213
Saul 1 Chronicles 10:14 1 31,420,214
God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chronicles 13:15-17 500,000 31,920,214
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 31,920,215
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 32,920,215
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 32,920,216
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.28:6 120,000 33,040,216
God delivered the Israelites into the hand of the Chaldeans. 2 Chr.36:16-17 1000? 33,041,216
Ezekiel's wife Ezekiel 24:15-18 1 33,041,217
Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 33,041,219
Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 33,041,220

Still think he loves us all?
09philj
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09philj
2,825 posts
Jester

And, for my encore, here is why Jesus is not a good role model.

He told his followers to hate their families.
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children,and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

He came to break apart families.
I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. Matthew 10:35-36
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luke 12:51-53

He insisted that his followers love him more than anyone else (including their families).
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Matthew 10:37

He encouraged people to abandon their home and family for his name's sake.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. Matthew 19:29, Mark 10:29-30, Luke 18:29-30

He was rude to his own family.
Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! Matthew 12: 47-49, Mark 3:31-34, Luke 8:20-21

He was dismissive of other people's feelings toward their families.
And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. Matthew 8:21-22, Luke 9:59-62

He discouraged marriage.
They which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage. Luke 20:35

He was a hypocrite.
He told his followers not to call anyone a fool.

Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matthew 5:22
Yet he often called his critics and disciples fools.

Ye fools and blind. Matthew 23:17, 19
Ye fools. Luke 11:40
O fools, and slow of heart to believe. Luke 24:25

He encouraged his followers to mutilate themselves to avoid hell.
Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out ... And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. Matthew 5:28-30
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Matthew 18:8-9
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off ... And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off ... And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:43-48

He encouraged men to castrate themselves.
There are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. Matthew 19:12

He approved of God's killings in the Bible.
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words ... It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Matthew 10:14-15
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37
As it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man ... the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot ... the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all ... Remember Lot's wife. Luke 17:26-32
As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: John 3:14

He believed in the Old Testament's stories.
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:37, Luke 17:27
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. ... Remember Lot's wife. Luke 17:29-32
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40

He accepted Old Testament laws.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. Matthew 5:17

He criticized the Pharisees for not killing parent-cursing children.
God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Matthew 15:4
Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Mark 7:10

He and his dad plan to torture billions of people forever after they die.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matthew 7:19
Fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew 10:28
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:41-42
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:49-50
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:41
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment. Matthew 25:46
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed. Mark 16:16
Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Luke 12: 5

He implied that all Jews are going to hell.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 8:12

He was a false prophet.
Verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. Matthew 10:23
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28, Mark 9:1, Luke 9:27
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, Luke 21:32
Behold, I come quickly. Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:11, 22:20

He was a warmonger.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:51-53
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

He was a megalomaniac.
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed. Mark 8:38
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God ... he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:18, 36
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:16

He condemned cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching.
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! ... And thou, Capernaum ... shalt be brought down to hell ... it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee. Matthew 11:21-24
Whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Mark 6:11
But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not ... it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! ... And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell. Luke 10:10-15

He called an entire generation perverse, evil, adulterous vipers.
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? ... Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign. Matthew 12:34-39, 16:4
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation.... 17:17

He invented George W. Bush's false dichotomy.
He that is not with me is against me. Matthew 12:30, Luke 11:230

He approved of torture.
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matthew 18:34-35

He inspired the Republican Tea Party.
Whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Matthew 13:12, Mark 4:25
Unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. Matthew 25:29

He believed in an unforgivable sin.
Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men ... whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Matthew 12:31-32, Mark 3:29, Luke 12:10

He spoke in parables to confuse people so he could send them to hell.
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. Mark 4:11, Matthew 13:10-15

He believed in a God (himself?) who had his enemies slaughtered in front of him.
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. Luke 19:27

He believed in devils, evil eyes, and unclean spirits.

Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying ... cast out devils. Matthew 10:5-8
Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him. Matthew 12:22
And Jesus rebuked the devil. Matthew 17:18
And he ... cast out many devils; and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him. Mark 1:34
Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils. Luke 9:1
And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God. And he straitly charged them that they should not make him known. Mark 3:11-12
An evil eye ... defile the man. Mark 7:22-23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. Matthew 6:23, Luke 11:34
There was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit ... And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. Mark 1:23-25
He gave them power against unclean spirits. Matthew 10:1
When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. Matthew 12:43-45, Luke 11:24-26

He was a bit of a racist.
The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. Mark 7:26-27, Matthew 15:22-26

He condemned people to hell for things that their ancestors supposedly did.
Ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. ... Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the ****ation of hell? ... Upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Matthew 23:31-35

He got kind of gross sometimes.
And he ... put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue. Mark 7:33
He took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought. Mark 8: 23
He spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. John 9:6
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life ... For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him ... He that eateth me, even he shall live by me. John 6:53-57

He approved of slavery (or at least didn't object to it) and said that God is like a slave owner who beats his slaves and sells families to pay for debts.
And a certain centurion's servant [slave], who was dear unto him, was sick, and ready to die. And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto him the elders of the Jews, beseeching him that he would come and heal his servant. ... When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick. Luke 7:2-10
And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:47
The kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Matthew 18:23-25

Someday he'll fight against people with a sword sticking out of his mouth.
Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Revelation 2:16
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. ... And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. Revelation 19:15, 21

He threatens to kill children (with death).
I will kill her children with death. Revelation 2:23

He's going to kill billions of people with his sickle.
Upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. ,,, And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. ... And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Revelation 14:14-20

He unnecessarily killed 2000 pigs.
And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding. So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine. And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. Matthew 8:30-32
And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine ... And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea. Mark 5:12-13
Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked. Luke 8:33

He killed a fig tree by cursing it. (Because it didn't have any fruit that he could eat.)
When he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away. Matthew 21:19
And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. Mark 11:13-14

He didn't know much about Biology.
It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth: But when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it. Mark 4:31-32

He lied about prayer.
Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. Matthew 17:20
That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:23-24
Whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do. John 14:13-14, 15:7, 15:16, 16:23
If ye have faith, and doubt not ... if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Matthew 21:21-22
If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you. Luke 17:6

He said some stupid things.
All things are possible to him that believeth. Mark 9:23
Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Luke 10:19
That which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. Luke 16:15
Some of you shall they cause to be put to death ... but there shall not an hair of your head perish. Luke 21:16-18
Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. Luke 21:23
He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:38
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world ... that they which see might be made blind. John 9:39
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. John 12:25

He talked complete nonsense about the end of the world.
Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows. ... In those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Mark 13:8, 24-25, Matthew 24:3-30, Luke 21:10-11

He said that everyone who lived before him was a thief and a robber.
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers John 10:8

His neighbors rejected him.
Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? And they were offended in him. Matthew 13:55-57, Mark 6:3
Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? John 6:42

Many that saw him up close and personal thought he was mad and possessed by a devil.
Many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him? John 10:20

His family didn't believe in him.
For neither did his brethren believe in him. John 7:5

His friends thought he was insane.
And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. Mark 3:21

He said that his true followers would cast out devils, speak in tongues, handle snakes, and drink poisons.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Mark 16:17-18

He said that disbelievers will be tormented forever in hell.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be ****ed. Mark 16:16

He dresses kind of funny.
The Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass ... and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword. Revelation 1:13-16
The Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass Revelation 2:18
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood ... And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword ... And ... on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:12-16

He is the living dead with keys to hell and death.
I am he that liveth, and was dead... and have the keys of hell and of death. Revelation 1:13-16

Both the lists are from
dair5
offline
dair5
3,371 posts
Shepherd

And, for my encore, here is why Jesus is not a good role model.


So for every quote there did you actually read that section of the bible to confirm it? In some cases you would may even need to read the entire chapter. Or from the beggining of a chapter to a little after the quote. You did do all this right? Because when I tried to check a few of these it seemed like they were taken at least a little bit out of context to me.
Bladerunner679
offline
Bladerunner679
2,487 posts
Blacksmith

So for every quote there did you actually read that section of the bible to confirm it? In some cases you would may even need to read the entire chapter. Or from the beggining of a chapter to a little after the quote. You did do all this right? Because when I tried to check a few of these it seemed like they were taken at least a little bit out of context to me


lol, out of context is how people do things these days. this applies to everyone who reads a book for the sake of convincing others your beliefs. this is done with every religion, and atheists as well. this is well known by now as the cherrypicking fallacy.

the simple fact is that if we went entirely into context, neither side would win due to the fact that the bible's in context still contradicts itself, and opposes those who see the contradictions.

-Blade
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