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thepyro222
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thepyro222
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Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

I'm glad to see you decided to discuss this further StarOfPathz.


I believe Christianity is a totally logical religion. It has historical evidence.


Yes we do have some things int he Bible that are factual according to historical finding. There are also numerous things in the Bible that have been shown to be false according to historical findings. Non of the supernatural claims have any historical evidence supporting it.

To claim that the whole of the Bible is real because it uses real elements is like to claim Spiderman comics are real because of New York existing in it or Obama became president in it. Fictional work can and often does include real historical events and factual settings.

It prophecy which has proven to be true(look at the Old Testament than look at Jesus. prophecy fufilled hundreds of years after it was written.)



First off this is using the Bible to prove the Bible. Saying that something the Bible said will happen happens later in the Bible is like saying something the Harry Potter books said would happen happens later in that book.
Often what I find in the Bible being called prophecy is nothing of the sort. It's usually just reinterpretation to make the scripture say what the person wants it to say. This is usually followed or in conjunction with overly vague prophecy where the &quotrophecy" can fit multiple situations throughout history.
There are also self fulfilling prophecies where an event happens because the person or group of people read about it and made it happen.

Jesus in known to have lived, he is found in secular documents.


Actually no he's not known to have lived. yes we do have extra-biblical documents mentioning a Jesus in conjunction with Christianity. All of these are not first hand accounts. Some have been tampered with adding in Christ references. Others still are actually referring to a different Jesus.
As for any first hand historical evidence in support of his existence we have non.
I would also recommend this video series for you to watch when you get the chance. Here is the first video o the series.
Excavating The Empty Tomb - Part 1

I look at the facts.


For this next part I would suggest you look a bit closer. You are very ignorant of science. Go and research what the actual scientists in the various field are saying rather than what apologetics and creationists are saying.

The earth could not have come from nothing.


No one is claiming it did. It is claimed to have come from particles left over when our sun formed. Those particles clumped together. (which particles have been shown to naturally do in space.) As these particles clumped together they grew larger and larger until we ended up with the planets we have today.

Supposing that everything did come form nothing,


Actually something from nothing is plausible when you take into account that nothing by a physicists point of view includes virtual particles and quantum fluctuations. So "nothing" in this sense is in fact something.

Evolution is improbable (look at the odds)


Okay, I happen to have a whole section on this very point on my E-Bomb. (something I would recommend you look through, it can be found on my profile.)
Examples of Random Probability
A Series Unlikely Events
Non-Random Probability
Genetic Algorithims and Evolutionary Computation
Digit Numbering and Limb Development]

Beating Astronomical Odds

in addition to many other problems that I don't think it should be classified as the truth (as it is taught in schools.).


Again I would recommend that you look at the evidence supporting it and not some creationist site. (numerous links in my profile)

To all who say God is an impossibility, how do you know?


This depends on how you are defining God.

Without the Bible I would say it does not matter,


This hints at circular logic.

but I have looked at the facts of evolution,Christianity,Humanism, and Christianity seems like the one that aligns with the facts.


Just a few off the top of my head.
-The human race starting from 2 people and then later being brought down to 8 people couldn't have happened based on the genetic diversity we have.
-The Earth being formed before the Sun couldn't have happened due to the gravitational forces required. Even if we say God did it in this backwards fashion, it only serves to make God look incompetent for putting up the "house" before the "foundation" was set.
-the claim of the existence of a firmament in the sky.
-The entire order of events in genesis's creation story does not match observed evidence.
-Global flood is physically impossible due o the lack of water on the Earth alone. There are of course numerous other problems with this story.
-The development of language does not fit with the tower of Babel story.

If I felt like actually doing some searching I could go on. In short Christianity does not fit with the observed evidence we have.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

-Global flood is physically impossible due o the lack of water on the Earth alone


what about 3.8 billion year ago? what is usually called "ocean earth"
Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
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Blacksmith

what about 3.8 billion year ago? what is usually called "ocean earth"


that was back when the glaciers were nonexistient. unfortunately, the glaciers can't melt in one night, and then suddenly freeze again 40 nights later. but I digress...

even with the glaciers melted, it would only cover parts of the world. the U.S. itself would retain about half of its land mass, and I'm not sure about the rest of the world.

-Blade
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

that was back when the glaciers were nonexistient.


it was before the "frozen earth". when the entire earth was 1 big glacier. xD
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

what about 3.8 billion year ago? what is usually called "ocean earth"


As Blade said there still wouldn't be enough water to account for Biblical flood conditions. Even during that time there was still some land mass present.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

"I'm not an atheist, and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations."~Albert Einstein


Since you want to bat around Einstein as if it were some sort of authority.

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this." -Albert Einstein
partydevil
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partydevil
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Jester

Even during that time there was still some land mass present.


no there was not.
the height difference on earth occurred because the ice during the "frozen earth" was pressing down on the still, small and weak crust.
and the earth itself wasn't able to let it's heat go. so volcano's went up through the ice. this made the height difference.
before the "frozen earth" there was the "ocean earth". the ground was ruffly flat at that point. so the ocean was allot less deep but way bigger. (world wide)

as for the biblical flood. yea it is/was impossible. forgot for a moment it's was about noah.
pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Jester

as for the biblical flood. yea it is/was impossible. forgot for a moment it's was about noah.


Speaking of this flood...anybody want to explain the fact that Noah first sent out a raven to look for land, then after it failed sent out the dove but when the dove failed he gave the dove a 2nd chance? Such a minute detail but one I find quite interesting.

I think the Bible should be looked at metaphorically and not historically. Like the rave/dove thing...metaphorically it could be a representation of how those that are "bad" or "unholy" (which black is usually associated with on both) do not get second chances, while those that are "good" or "holy" (which white, and the dove, are associated with) do. Plus that idea fits in with the entire Noah and the Arc story...God saw the whole world as full of sin, but saw Noah as holy, and allowed him to live (have a 2nd chance) while slaughtering everyone else (no 2nd chances for them)
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

The problem is, how much do you take metaphorically, and how credible can you stay?
Taking single parts as true and others as metaphorical seems arbitrary; a take-away buffet where you choose yourself how you see certain things, depending on how it suits you. Taking the bible consequently metaphorically means also that god himself becomes a metaphor, thus grounding christianity in its current form. Though taking it consequently literally is not viable in our modern society.

One could conclude that either way, the bible is not the holy guide book it is supposed to be, and has about as much moral authority than a Brothers Grimm story.

Masterforger
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Masterforger
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I have nothing against religion, but this does put lots of holes in all-powerful kinds of gods;
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God"
-Epicurus

Alpha791
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Alpha791
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Peasant

I'm atheist and believe that the idea of a God, in the sense that major religions think of, is completely illogical and downright impossible. No sentient form of life can simply create the entire universe and make life on the scale of even one square mile of Earth. Religion is the embodiment of man's ignorance, fear of death, and irresponsibility. Man is naturally ignorant of things he doesn't want to accept. If your mom tells you to wash the dishes and you absolutely despise this task, you act like she never said it and hope you don't have to do it. The same thing with the inevitable end for every living thing on Earth. Religion has created a "mental safety net" for death. If you think that when it does happen, something better will come then you don't really mind and you can accept it. But this isn't the case, it's like the story about your mom and the dishes all over again. Also, we are all naturally irresponsible people who only want to do what pleasures us. Religion helps us feel like we're still doing the "right thing" because all of our "sins" are taken care of by some guy with a beard who got nailed to a crucifix. Before that, they slaughtered animals for various gods. Before that, they weren't intelligent enough to come up with the idea of gods, and before that, humans were still unevolved.

On another topic, with the whole thing about Noah and his arc, wouldn't every animal on Earth, including us, be incestuous and retarded?

pangtongshu
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pangtongshu
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Jester

with the whole thing about Noah and his arc, wouldn't every animal on Earth, including us, be incestuous and retarded


Scientifically speaking yes (which would mean...they would have to be super geniuses back then! =O), but the Christians that defend it would say something along the lines of how "God let them mate without incestuous side effects"

And with the incest idea...same thing can be said with Adam and Eve (except for the animal incest part though, just humans for this one).
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

Scientifically speaking


Scientifically speaking, most species would have died out from the extreme birth defects.

, but the Christians that defend it would say something along the lines of how "God let them mate without incestuous side effects"


Christians that defend it, in my experience, completely ignore the issue altogether. Same goes for size of the ark/food for them/waste they would create/animals attacking each other/animals getting sick from poor conditions.

And with the incest idea...same thing can be said with Adam and Eve


Again, I can't think of a single time when a Christian has actually responded to that argument. They just flat out ignore you.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

The cheetah gives us an excellent example of what would happen in a severe bottle neck where inbreeding can't be avoided. Even in this example the severity isn't even close to what we would have in the Bible.

Noah's Ark and the Cheetah

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