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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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driejen
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driejen
486 posts
Nomad

Nothing keeps me from being converted apart from a lack of supporting evidence, sound empirical evidence. Making a positive claim without these is irrational, it's just conjecture, like believing in the loch ness monster and bigfoot.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

theres nothing to keep you from being converted,


The lack of evidence keeps conversion away just fine.
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

You have to believe in your lack of belief. otherwise it's just nothing.


In science, there is either "we know", "we will know later when we have sufficient backing to support our claims", or "we don't know". That is it. There is no belief or faith helping the scientists out. There may be cases of hope to solve the mysteries, granted, but this is a far skip down the lake from faith. Hope and faith are two different words, therefore I am not splitting hairs in my counterargument.


If you don't completely believe in a lack of faith based beliefs, theres nothing to keep you from being converted


Even if you have an open mind about such issues, there is still no such need for belief in order to keep your perspectives under control.

, which I believe is where the guys who started this thread said "I was atheist for 16 years." He said that and then everyone tore into him for being irrational, but he was the only one being that way.


Pyro was "torn for being irrational" because of his lack of arguments and reasons in stating his case, not to mention he tried barring the opposite end of the spectrum from participating in the discussion from the getgo. This is not something that you do in a debate. You do not have a team of people but then let everyone else out of the loop.

In order to understand this further, why don't you look up The Scottsboro Boys on Google? It's a court case while The Great Depression was in full swing. Perfect example of segregation of arguments as well as stubbornness and irrationality.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Believing in my lack of belief?

Tell you what, this is what I believe: I believe you haven't the slightest idea what you're saying. I also believe that if your statement were true I wouldn't be an atheist.

Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

In other words math and reality can be at odds on certainty. Because of how science in later definitions strictly relates to the natural world there is debate on whether math should be regarded as a science.

And because Einstein said it - it MUST be true.
Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

You have to believe in your lack of belief.


No I don't.

If you don't completely believe in a lack of faith based beliefs, theres nothing to keep you from being converted,


As its been said before, the lack of evidence does a very good job of keeping conversion away.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

I'm just saying even atheism is a belief system

What system? There is no system.

Oh and i saw that strip before E1337 so true.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

If Christianity had not found root in ancient Rome would we have the bible? No.
Casuistic argument, with a false-by-default statement - declined.
A lure of religion is the idea of redeeming a guilty conscience.
Yes, though Christianity is centered on the idea of "do what you want others to do to you" which was revolutionary by the time of it appearing and is still actual today.
A political tool (the bible) is not evidence.
Prove your point of the Bible being a political tool. Also check Kumran texts, originating in ~1AD, they comply with what the Bible says, thus they act as evidence of it having truth inside.
If God was as the average Christian describes him as an all loving being I would be fine with such a beings existence and would really have no reason to be afraid. Such a being should understand my mindset and accept me for who I am.
He does indeed, He accepts our free will to act as we decide, and in case of us turning our backs to Him, He will just leave us alone - but, we Christians know this condition as "Hell". While you are here, you have your free will to turn towards or against God, and if you will die while your soul won't accept Him as an all-loving being, you won't meet Him.
There are denominations of Christianity who believe that it's deeds that get you into heaven, if there really was an afterlife I would be all for it, even if eternity became unbelievably boring.
Well, basically it's the right position, if you do good and if you don't place guilt on your conscience with bad deeds, you can go to Heaven even if you have never heard of God existing. About eternal afterlife - I can't say what will be in there, I can say Christians believe in it, and God promised it.
Scientist tell how old a fossil is by what layer of earth is found in.
Wrong, there are other methods to determine the age of a fossil, like measurement of 14C concentration, or other long-term instabile isotopes, there can be more, I'm just unaware of them.
the CDC is a highly reliable, government entity.
See, the government driven scientific organizations, especially in medicine and pharmacy, are currently the place where popular exploits lead to huge money for the drug developers, so these can be (but not always are) biased. I have a source of government-independant scientific research, available in Russian, here, that states otherwise, and has evidential proof in forms of families cured from infertility diagnosed in professional clinics.
Btw, you fail math. 5e-6 is scientific notation. It is written as 5x10^-6, which is significantly smaller then 5.
You have probably failed at reading. I say &quotores of diameter 5e-6 m", where "m" stands for meters, and explained as "5 micrometers". Be careful with "fail" statements please.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

Nothing keeps me from being converted apart from a lack of supporting evidence, sound empirical evidence.
driejen, do you mind searching for Gloria Polo's evidence? If you did, please say if it's sound enough for you.
I don't believe because if there is a god, he is a cruel, capricious deity who does not deserve my piety, and because god is simply unneeded. The universe turns without a care, creating and killing life without the whim of a god.
This sounds like blatant ignorance. Ask yourself a question, where did the laws of physics come from?
Pyro was "torn for being irrational" because of his lack of arguments and reasons in stating his case
Well, internal evidence is pretty hard to explain, and certain people say this being not enough or not an argument at all. After all, he has just been converted, and if I take him right, he was directly approached by God somewhere within his soul - such a contact goes without any words, and even emotions don't explain the whole of this contact. But, since he's only 16, he's not that solid as a personality, and he does not know enough about God, thus he's easily shaken off his position.
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

But, since he's only 16, he's not that solid as a personality, and he does not know enough about God, thus he's easily shaken off his position.


I'm 19. lulz
Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

Ask yourself a question, where did the laws of physics come from?


Observations of the universe, that were then tested repeatedly.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

Observations of the universe, that were then tested repeatedly.
This is the way how they have been discovered as existing, not the way they were established at the universe's creation, or whatever initial state it had, as science says.
Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

This is the way how they have been discovered as existing, not the way they were established at the universe's creation, or whatever initial state it had, as science says.


I think we need to go over what physics is. Physics is not the stuff that happens out in space or anything like that. Physics is the study of the natural world, in order to better understand everything that happens. The laws of physics were more defined than discovered. They existed long before humans, its just that we have to put definitions to them to understand them.
Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

Ask yourself a question, where did the laws of physics come from?

http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Nothing/Laws.pdf
They existed long before humans, its just that we have to put definitions to them to understand them.

They also exist independent of human existence or God's existence.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Casuistic argument, with a false-by-default statement - declined.


The Bible would likely not exist in the form it I today. That doesn't mean the religion wouldn't have survived toil today. It's likely it would have remained a number of separate texts with the various denominations picking and choosing what group of text to follow. It likely wouldn't have organized and would have remained small if it did survive.
I'm not sure what effect that would have on Islam given it's a branch off from Christianity. I doubt Mormonism would exist. And The Roman pantheon might still be a live religion in some form or another.


Yes, though Christianity is centered on the idea of "do what you want others to do to you" which was revolutionary by the time of it appearing and is still actual today.


So Christians what us to preach at them, even to the point of going door to door telling them how there is no God? Constantly receive idol threats that you will be tortured for believing in Christianity? Try to enact laws forcing you to follow moral codes you don't hold? Try to get Evolution taught in churches? Get "There Is No God" put on the money add in "No" be tween Under and God? Then use the money and how the pledge says "Under No God" as an example of the US being an atheist nation?
Then after all of this, when practically the only place you ever speak out about it was online you get treated as the bad guy for it?

Is this really how Christians what to be treated?
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