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InvisibleClarity
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InvisibleClarity
40 posts
Nomad

It seems to me that, during my short time here on the forums, the majority of the AG Community is Atheist. Is this just me, or is there truth to my thoughts?

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Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

I'm not sure I'm following how that would be illogical? Though I would actually say it's better to accept a theory rather then believe it.

The theory of gravity is not derivable just by looking at axioms of logic and going from there; it was intended to be a counterexample to "you should not believe anything that is not logical" or "logical is defined as anything that is derivable from axioms" - there needs to be some empirical input in order to arrive at that conclusion, and thus cannot be arrived from purely deductively.
Things that can be shown inductively or deductively. Of course we can still arrive at incorrect conclusions. But when those errors are found we should adjust accordingly.

OK - this makes more sense now.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Though I would actually say it's better to accept a theory rather then believe it.


I couldn't agree more with that statement.

I'm always annoyed when people announce that they believe in evolution or don't believe in evolution; belief isn't something that is involved in science; rather we should accept or not accept things based upon the data we are presented with. Most people don't seem to be able to grasp that concept.

Of course we can still arrive at incorrect conclusions. But when those errors are found we should adjust accordingly.


That's assuming that there is only one correct conclusion then correct? Sorry if I'm taking this out of context but I don't there are absolute answers for morality, if you're simply talking about natural sciences then I agree, however.
Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

I'm always annoyed when people announce that they believe in evolution or don't believe in evolution; belief isn't something that is involved in science; rather we should accept or not accept things based upon the data we are presented with. Most people don't seem to be able to grasp that concept.

Well, does belief imply that there's some uncertainty? I can believe that x=x. Belief doesn't represent anything except conviction; however, the term accepting a theory is more specific.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Well, does belief imply that there's some uncertainty? I can believe that x=x. Belief doesn't represent anything except conviction; however, the term accepting a theory is more specific.


I see your point; however, when it comes to language I tend to look at connotation rather than denotation. Belief tends to imply almost an affection for something, an attraction to it; it's important to be as objective as possible (clearly) and I find that "belief" tends to preclude objectivity, at least in part.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Well, does belief imply that there's some uncertainty? I can believe that x=x. Belief doesn't represent anything except conviction; however, the term accepting a theory is more specific.


Saying that one believes a theory, for example "I believe in evolution" implies that evolution is a belief, just an opinion and not something well founded. You can say you believe in God but you wouldn't say you believe in thermodynamics. We accept a theory because it's the best explanation of our observations.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

So how do you exactly define "logical"?

Something which is supported by reliable evidence and / or facts.

Einfach you're making it seem that half the events in your day you know of are the truth. If I'm told my sister wants to burrow £15 I don't KNOW that, but I believe it because its the evidence provided by my mother.

You actually answered it in the quote right below that xD

Oh, sweet.

We accept a theory because it's the best explanation of our observations.

Indeed, but sometimes scientists (well I say "sometimes", but its probably very common) attempt to find other solutions that undermine an already known theory to see if it is logical. With that in mind - gravity and the Big Bang have not found any opposing evidence (that is as logical).

- H
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Indeed, but sometimes scientists (well I say "sometimes", but its probably very common) attempt to find other solutions that undermine an already known theory to see if it is logical. With that in mind - gravity and the Big Bang have not found any opposing evidence (that is as logical).


Just because there are competing theories doesn't mean we shouldn't accept the established one.
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Just because there are competing theories doesn't mean we shouldn't accept the established one.


Religion was once the established theory.
grimml
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grimml
879 posts
Nomad

Religion was once the established theory.


Religion is not a theory in the scientific sense.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Just because there are competing theories doesn't mean we shouldn't accept the established one.

True, but the attempt of discovering a new plausible one is still something that is tried.

- H
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

True, but the attempt of discovering a new plausible one is still something that is tried.


Yes and that's a good thing. What's your point?
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

None really, just something I'm pointing out to take into account for possibly future debates.

- H

qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Religion is not a theory in the scientific sense.


But it was a perfectly logical theory hundreds o years ago. Maybe in a few hundred years the definition of a scientific theory will have changed.
Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

But it was a perfectly logical theory hundreds o years ago.


If you want to be technical you probably shouldn't use the word "logic" there. "Prevalent" is probably the word you're looking for. Logic refers to a set of rules that structure argument.

Religion is also not any kind of theory. It is an assertion that one commits to as fact, with far more authority than a theory, which postulates a model to represent perceived reality.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Religion is also not any kind of theory. It is an assertion that one commits to as fact, with far more authority than a theory, which postulates a model to represent perceived reality.

True, they don't seem to recognise the power of the human mind or even refuses to accept some of the facts because it could compromise them.

- H
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