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Paarfam
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Paarfam
1,558 posts
Nomad

Inspired by Krizaz

Today I was inspired by someone that we need change. I was the one arguing for it. In this world there are rebels everywhere, people are starting a world-wide revolution. Egypt, Libya, Iraq, I could go on all day. Maybe people are just stupid, scared, or too naive to do anything major other than just kill the ones who are opposed to them. Well, just what do we want? What do we want? Do really need or even want change? Is it a good idea? If it is, what would be the best change? Dictatorship? World-wide independence? Universal unity? I personally believe that a dictatorship with a strong checks and balances system would be the best. What are your thoughts? God, people are idiots anymore. I mean, some of those laws that are in place today have been around before the technological revolution! They mean nothing today. Best choice for weapons? Protest, violence, assassination? Are there more?
To sum it up, these are areas of discussion:
-Do we need it?
-Do we want it?
-Ideal government?
-Unity or not?
-Way to change ideas?
-There are more, we can just start with these.

  • 87 Replies
Paarfam
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Paarfam
1,558 posts
Nomad

Going along with my previous comment, I always knew Obama would do nothing. He doesn't have the experience and he managed to get the world eating out of his hand, until they realized what they were eating.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

Politicians say a lot of stuff. It makes them look good. He never outlined any policy detailing how he'd fix it. If he had, then you could argue that that policy was faulted. You can't just bash him for saying he'd fix the world.

I could bash bush for saying he'd find an effective way to combat the 'strategery' [his own word ] of the terrorists -- and then I'd be able to say he failed because we stayed in the middle east? That doesn't count.



it is ridiculous to say Obama has done it

In 19 Months, Obama added 2.5 Trillion USD to our National Debt, more than the Presidents George Washington through Ronald Reagon *combined*.


He's getting only half of what he wants. He's finding it difficult to get his more democratic measures passed [such as a corporate tax increase] and only his more moderate ones such as increasing student schooling aid. His 'addition' of the debt was already projected.


So rather than defending ourselves against our enemies, we should do nothing?


Excuse me, but wasn't the WMD threat not even there? Also, we flung ourselves into the Middle East without having a target. There isn't some city we have to plunder, we're just shooting baddies as we see them and spending a crapload of money for it. Also, I wouldn't call what we are doing defending. I've read a lot of articles with people agreeing on the fact that our drone strikes in areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan aren't leading to a killing of terrorists, they're leading to people accepting terrorism.
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

You're ******* kidding me, right? Bush was president when 9/11 hit! Obama came into power at a much easier time, less terrorism, ecology and such. The only worse is the economy, which he completely destroyed. He made things worse for himself, yet he blames others. He is a very bold man.


When Obama came to power the economy was messed up. It isn't his fault that the economy is still messed up.
Paarfam
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Paarfam
1,558 posts
Nomad

When Obama came to power the economy was messed up. It isn't his fault that the economy is still messed up.

It's worse now.
Paarfam
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Paarfam
1,558 posts
Nomad

Well... Osama Bin Laden was killed last night so maybe it'd be a good idea to consider stronger on terrorism if we were to change the government's ways to exterminate terrorism. I think we should just nuke "bad" areas after evacuating families, then safely dispose all nukes and plants and keep a close watch on development of illegal nukes.

valkery
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valkery
1,255 posts
Nomad

It's worse now.


Bull****. It seems worse because you want it to be.

If Bush was still in office, you would be saying that it is really much better than it looks. It isn't his fault, would you pleas stop blaming him.

Notice that this is what the people arguing for Obama are doing.

Now think back a few years. Think how much Bush ****ed up.

He got us into two wars that needed to not happen. Granted, we should have gone to Afghanistan, but Iraq was a mistake. He got us into a recession and than he handed the job off to the next poor slob and said, your problem now buddy.

Also, look at this interesting bit of info.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-edO1OfAxvpA/TVxD9f6ADDI/AAAAAAAAACE/Ae1ghj-R2Po/s400/budget_deficit_or_surplus.gif


Looks to me that Bush ****ed things up royally by himself.
darnell13
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darnell13
195 posts
Nomad

Looks to me that Bush ****ed things up royally by himself.


Why didn't you include a more current figure? Page 8 includes a more recent figure. Assuming it is correct, the deficit has grown even more since Obama has been in.
Paarfam
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Paarfam
1,558 posts
Nomad

@darnell13
Exactly. I never said Bush was good, I said Obama isn't any better. I said he was worse than Bush.

darnell13
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darnell13
195 posts
Nomad

Exactly. I never said Bush was good, I said Obama isn't any better. I said he was worse than Bush.


I agree. Too often if someone says he/she thinks Obama is bad, people assume that that person loves Bush and the same is true if someone says that Bush was bad.
Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

Why didn't you include a more current figure? Page 8 includes a more recent figure. Assuming it is correct, the deficit has grown even more since Obama has been in.


Why does that surprise you?
Obama still needs to pull a 3 trillion dollar debt to run our countries government job area -- which has grown in its own since his incoming to office. It's not like he is going to borrow any more or less than Bush.

Bush still has a war going, which Obama primarily escalated. His presidency [not to say his comandeering of the forces or anything] involved at first an increase to get troops there. Not to mention bringing troops home costs even more cash, since they get $$. And The 2008 Bailout by Bush -- that came up on Obama's first quarter deficit.

If you look at a chart of American history, those who start to borrow usually have a line of borrowers after them. Obama started with a debt, the only way to really deal with it is to borrow more. He didn't take a surplus and burn it on a war. Think of all civil construction and infrastructure development that could have happened if not for the sudden deficit.

It's like me handing you a turd for no apparent reason. The only trashcan is a 7 hour drive and you're obliged to take it there.
On the 6th day, it smells a lot worse. You haven't done anything to the turd you're only trying to fix the problem, but your car is still the one smelling, and a lot more than mine.

Idk weird analogy. I Just don't see how you can 'judge' Obama the same way. I'm not saying bad asset managing was Bush's fault, but I'm saying the War decreased our ability to fix things -- and that will never be any body else's fault but Bush's.
darnell13
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darnell13
195 posts
Nomad

Why does that surprise you?


I never said I was surprised. It was just fairly obvious that he omitted statitistics from Obama's first years.

In regards to the reasons, the war isn't the only cause of the current deficit. For example, you cite Bush's bailout. As I recall, Obama has had large bailouts of his own.
Maverick4
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Maverick4
6,800 posts
Peasant

He's getting only half of what he wants


And if that means adding trillions to our debt in a few short years, thank God he isn't getting all of what he wants.

Excuse me, but wasn't the WMD threat not even there?


WMDs are defined as Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical Weapons/Agents. Hussein gassed the Kurds repeatedly with Chemical Agents. Hmmm...

we're just shooting baddies as we see them and spending a crapload of money for it.


Well, shooting 'baddies' just nabbed us bin Laden (and other High Ranking Officials), so I think the cost is rather justified.

I wouldn't call what we are doing defending


Then what do you call it when we retaliate when people fly planes into our buildings and the Pentagon? Attacking American Embassies? Attacking US Naval Vessels?

I've read a lot of articles with people agreeing on the fact that our drone strikes in areas like Afghanistan and Pakistan aren't leading to a killing of terrorists, they're leading to people accepting terrorism.


Non Sequitor.

He got us into two wars that needed to not happen


Iraq saw the fall of Hussein, and Aghanistan saw the defeat of the Taliban. Surely, SURELY, you don't wish to see them back? You're against the very wars that drove these horrible people/groups out of power?

He got us into a recession


I was not aware that President Bush was also CEO of any major Banking Companies. It was just Bush's bad luck that the Housing Market collapsed when it did. To say he caused it is just ignorant of the facts.

and than he handed the job off to the next poor slob


I'm fairly certain thats how democracies, atleast America, works. Unless you wanted Bush to stay in office longer and try to fix the problem?

Also, look at this interesting bit of info.


My chart is from the same source, and more recent.

Also, the 'surplus' reported by Bill Clinton was really him counting the money paid into Social Security as 'income', and then spending it.

Source

Obama started with a debt, the only way to really deal with it is to borrow more.


Thats fiscally irresponsible, and if I pulled that crap, I'd get arrested. Heres my example:

One day I get a credit card in the mail. Fun, because now I can get all the stuff that my income from my job won't let me get. So I get a bunch of new toys; a Boat, an SUV, Jet Skis, etc. So to uptake all these toys is costing me a lot of money... more than my income. So I began to 'ay off' my debt my making minimum interest payments.

Well, I still want to drive my SUV, ride my Jet Ski, and mess around with my boat. I mean, who wouldn't? So I just use my credit card to pay for the upkeep and gas and such. This drives up how much I pay, and I still make the minimum payments.

Eventually, I'll default on my debt and I'll declare bankruptcy. I may even possibly go to jail for fraud of some other scheme. Its the same with the government, except that the credit card company *coughchinacough* has yet to call up the debt.
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