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Holladay15
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Holladay15
3,671 posts
Nomad

I ask this because a lot of these forums are of why people believe there is a God but, what about those out there who don't believe in a God? Why don't you think there is a God at all?

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qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

I'm not knowing, I'm searching! The hard way. I don't believe the things that were told me as a child. I'm asking questions. Translate my arguments with google? I understand, the easy way, too. You are definitly part of a religion.


No I am an atheist who is a rational and logic person and feel that instead of posting in broken English I should put it through google translate and see if there are any obvious mistakes and learn from the experience.

I'm going to make up a proverb here. Tell me if it sound good.

A fool does things the hard way to show that they are wise. A wise man knows he is wise and takes the logical route.
Holladay15
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Holladay15
3,671 posts
Nomad

A fool does things the hard way to show that they are wise. A wise man knows he is wise and takes the logical route.


Wait, what is your goal in this are you talking about doing things in a certain way to prove wisdom or logic. Also, Google translate would actually make things worse
Programpro
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Programpro
562 posts
Nomad

I'm not knowing, I'm searching! The hard way. I don't believe the things that were told me as a child. I'm asking questions. Translate my arguments with google? I understand, the easy way, too. You are definitly part of a religion.


That makes sense to me I like your "Knowing" and "Searching" phrases, they're very profound.

A fool does things the hard way to show that they are wise. A wise man knows he is wise and takes the logical route.


Eh... can you give an example of a fool doing something the hard way to show that it's wise? And why does a wise man have to suppose himself wise? Sorry for critique...
Sssssnnaakke
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Sssssnnaakke
1,036 posts
Scribe

A fool does things the hard way to show that they are wise. A wise man knows he is wise and takes the logical route.

So we are all fools? If the fool convinces the wise that he is wise we are all fools. Anyways logic beats religion and yet people who believe in different religions use logic and don't even really realize it!
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Wait, what is your goal in this are you talking about doing things in a certain way to prove wisdom or logic. Also, Google translate would actually make things worse


And then he could use anther translator if that doesn't work. And I was talking about him saying google translate is the easy way out.

Eh... can you give an example of a fool doing something the hard way to show that it's wise? And why does a wise man have to suppose himself wise? Sorry for critique...


Look, what I was talking about was Foraker apologising for bad english in his posts because when I suggested google translate or something he said that is too easy. Which is a fool doing things the hard way example.

So we are all fools? If the fool convinces the wise that he is wise we are all fools. Anyways logic beats religion and yet people who believe in different religions use logic and don't even really realize it!


This was a proverb about foraker saying google translate makes tings too easy.
Foraker
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Foraker
100 posts
Nomad

I think the logical route is to learn and understand by myself.
Conversation is the best way to reach that goal.
And you are only wise, when you understand, that you nearly know nothing.
Religion makes sense for mankind, but not for me. For me it's only naive.
And thx for all the hints.

barney003
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barney003
55 posts
Nomad

religion is just a myth . It is only a perception of an individual. We have to work all through logic. But logic also doesn't work for some people. People try to put logic in god. But it is just a feeling. I am not saying logic is not necessary even in realizing the relevance of god. But, it doesn't play the highest role.

hazthebezz
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hazthebezz
23 posts
Peasant

well, i have some questions to pose. if we believe that there is no god, then we are believing that this universe is formed by coincidence. starting with a big bang which happened coincidentally, while coincidentally has perfect expanding rate to form this world as it is now, followed by random collisions of particles, which coincidentally form another particles, followed by random collisions of planet, which randomly create Earth, followed by random formation of cells and finally the creation of humans. so, basically, humans are created as a result of coincidence, which has no aim and meaning in life.

let put this in an analogy, lets say that we are all taking a test in a very big room,where we are posed with thousands of questions. it is seen that some are answering the questions diligently, some are trying to answer correctly, some are just answering what they want, some are answering all wrongly, some are copying others, some are helping others, some are fighting with the cheaters, and some just leave the room early. however, in the end, the teacher just take our exam papers, without looking at them, crumple them, and throw them in the fire. he does the same to all students. then will everything that we the students do have any meaning at all?

following the same logic, why are there people doing good things and ask others to do the same? why are there people punishing the wrongdoers? why do people want to live? in the end, everything will have no meaning at all when we die. then what difference will it be if we kill ourselves early?

ironically all this questions can be answered easily if one belive in god and believes that everything that he does do have some meanings.

Avorne
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Avorne
3,085 posts
Nomad

So what you're saying there is "because it's hard to think of other, more logical solutions - I'll just believe that God did everything seeing as it's the easiest answer."

Thousands of years ago, people believed that the sun was pulled by a God with a chariot, that was the easy answer to something that they didn't particularly understand and it made sense to them. We now know better - science marches on and who knows how far we'll get in another millennia? Heck, even a century could get us there, God isn't the answer.

qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

well, i have some questions to pose. if we believe that there is no god, then we are believing that this universe is formed by coincidence. starting with a big bang which happened coincidentally, while coincidentally has perfect expanding rate to form this world as it is now, followed by random collisions of particles, which coincidentally form another particles, followed by random collisions of planet, which randomly create Earth, followed by random formation of cells and finally the creation of humans. so, basically, humans are created as a result of coincidence, which has no aim and meaning in life.


Well first off as a reply to your post if you believe god exists you have a lot more questions like why should we worship such an obviously corrupt ******* who abuses his omnipotent power for his own pleasure and also what made god. I find that god was always here to be logically impossible and a lot less likely tan the big bang. And I'm not a scientist but I think I heard something about sub atomic particles keep coming in and out of existence all the time and if they bang together they make a chain reaction or something. I'm not sure about the details but we don't say we know for sure how everything began and we are prepared to change what we accept as true if given evidence and remember while it may be unlikely it had the whole of infinity to happen in. This world was formed by the fact that particles attract each other and get bigger which attract more particles which are pulled into orbit around a star and have the necessary ingredients for life on them. This is out of trillions of other planets so lots of them must get life eventually. And cells were formed after a few billion years which is enough time for very unlikely things to happen in. They evolved and eventually turned into humans. This is not just randomly happened and the purpose of life is to pass on your genes.

Your second paragraph is just a stupid simile. I don't know what the hell it is supposed to mean.

following the same logic, why are there people doing good things and ask others to do the same? why are there people punishing the wrongdoers? why do people want to live? in the end, everything will have no meaning at all when we die. then what difference will it be if we kill ourselves early?


People are raised with a set of good and bad beliefs. They can change over time but they feel that their good beliefs are good and so should be followed as they are good. They feel that everything works better if people do good things. Through society people find a set of morals that is shared by the majority and people that break it should be punished as they pose a threat to that theory of morals. People want to live to enjoy life and to stay with people they love. Why shouldn't they stay alive? And we will have enjoyed lie and/or helped other people enjoy it which is a worthy goal. And I don't get what your obsession with death is. People make their own reasons to live even if it is to find a reason to live.

And while god may be a nice fantasy he is still a fantasy and I'm not sure he deserves the nice after reading the new testament.
iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,027 posts
Peasant

in the end, everything will have no meaning at all when we die. then what difference will it be if we kill ourselves early?


I don't think life has a meaning, that doesn't mean it's not worth living.

Think of it like this:

When you get on a roller coaster, you know that you'll just end up at the same spot at the end of the run, with nothing gained and nothing lost. The fact that it is meaningless does not, however, mean you cannot enjoy the ride.

So, yeah. Life's a coincidence, so just enjoy it while it lasts.

ironically all this questions can be answered easily if one belive in god and believes that everything that he does do have some meanings.


Your example does not suggest in any way that there is a God, however. If you don't believe in a god, you'll answer that yes, you're insignificant. If you believe in God, you'll say hell no, you'll go to heaven if you're good. The question itself doesn't in any way hint to the existence or absence of a God, though, so it's not an argument for or against anyone's belief.
Icewall42
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Icewall42
34 posts
Nomad

I find it far more satisfying to believe there is no God. Just because I'm "Godless," doesn't mean I don't know right from wrong and have morals. It doesn't mean I'm a bad person. And when you take God out of the equation, you free your mind to experiencing and learning about the world and the rest of the universe.

It's also not true that without God, life is meaningless. In fact, people need to develop their own sense of the meaning of life. They have to create the meaning for themselves.

Logic, science, everything I know about the world, and the more I learn about it, tell me no God exists. Believe me, understanding that there is no God has made me responsible for my actions, has opened my mind, and has made me far more satisfied with life. Nature is a wonderful thing and requires no magic to set it in motion.

hazthebezz
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hazthebezz
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Peasant

This is not just randomly happened and the purpose of life is to pass on your genes.


so, if it is not random, then are you saying that it is planned? as random=coincidence and the antonym of random is planned. then who might plan everything that happened? you are contradicting your belief, man...

Your second paragraph is just a stupid simile. I don't know what the hell it is supposed to mean.


my second paragraph explain about our lives..think about it.

And I don't get what your obsession with death is


i am obsessed with death because eventually, we will have to face it. it is a REALLY BIG matter that many people tend to forget about it, UNTIL they themselves are at the end of their life. so, we shouldn't discuss about death? the same thing as we shouldnt discuss about our old life ahead? be realistic, people..

When you get on a roller coaster, you know that you'll just end up at the same spot at the end of the run, with nothing gained and nothing lost. The fact that it is meaningless does not, however, mean you cannot enjoy the ride.


your example is not suitable for the argument. the purpose of riding a roller coaster is of course to have fun. we gained something and that is the experience of riding a roller coaster. in the end of the ride, as we are still alive, we can brag to our friends about how awesome riding a roller coaster is. now, let's twist the analogy a little bit, let's say that at the end of the ride, our memories about the roller coaster are erased automatically. everything. so, in the end, your ride does not even matter compared to your friends. you cannot remember anything about it. in fact, you lost your money while your friends dont! now, that's DEATH!

It's also not true that without God, life is meaningless. In fact, people need to develop their own sense of the meaning of life. They have to create the meaning for themselves.


this is where the problem lie, my friends. if everybody have their own meaning in life, then it would not be a problem if my meanings in life are to **** and kill others. if the purpose of life is to enjoy it, then it would be a problem if i enjoy life by stealing from others. but, nevertheless, all atheists are condemning terrorists, cursing suicides. why would you people do good in the first place? because it's GOOD and you feel good when you do good? then i feel good when i do bad things, is it a problem? should you jail me when i kill? who decided what's good and what not in the first place? well, i believe it were religious people who promote good in the first place.

most of you people refuse to believe in god because you believe that god determines every action that you do. then, that makes a killer innocent because god is the one who control him to do so, right? well, there is a religion which teaches that we do have control over our action, however, god is the one who determines whether or not to approve our choice. it's like you do something good for your mom hoping that she will give you money for candy. however, it's your mom's choice whether to give you money or not. naturally, when you do something good, she will give you the money. however, sometimes she refuses to because she knows the unhealthiness of the candy. maybe i should go explore this religion.

i am sorry for the long post. i really am a teenager in dilemma.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
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Regent

following the same logic, why are there people doing good things and ask others to do the same? why are there people punishing the wrongdoers? why do people want to live? in the end, everything will have no meaning at all when we die. then what difference will it be if we kill ourselves early?

There are people doing good because they think it's good, and they want to do good. They don't need a god to tell them so. Is it okay if you kill someone because you think it's good? No, because most others do not think like you and you go against society; in fact most things deemed good are dictated by society and current morals, and religions do have an important impact on them, but they are not the source. It's just common sense, and those who kill and r*pe and do bad things have a certain loss of common sense. But it's subjective anyway, so...
Why do I want to live? Because life can be wonderful, but even when it's not, it's the only life we'll ever have, so we can sit around and do nothing and waste it, or we can live it and do things that help others and in the end other generations can profit from it; it's not like everything we do is lost, that's bollocks. Everything we do has a certain impact, and those who live after we die have to live with that impact, so it makes sense to do good things without a god dictating us what we have to do.

ironically all this questions can be answered easily if one belive in god and believes that everything that he does do have some meanings.

Like you said, it's the easy way, and it works fine as long as you just accept it and don't think too far and just live life. But seriously, I am not satisfied with "it's good because god said so", and personally I think life is way cooler without god because it is so unique and happened without magic.
hazthebezz
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hazthebezz
23 posts
Peasant

No, because most others do not think like you and you go against society


so, now we need to live according to society? you mean, we need to do good things because society think so? heh, then maybe society/human is our god. then again, let's return to my actual question. 'why should people do good??' it's not like we will have any benefit from it. so, we are doing good because we feel good by doing good? then how about if somebody feel good by doing 'bad'? let's say if someone bomb america because his country is destroyed by it. and he feel really good from it, then will he be guilty? let me justify this, yes, society often determmines what's good and what's bad. but, what is 'society' made of? yes, a bunch of persons. let me ask you, are you living as a person or as a society? you are living as one self or hundred of selves? in the end, you are alone when you die. so much of societies.

Everything we do has a certain impact, and those who live after we die have to live with that impact, so it makes sense to do good things without a god dictating us what we have to do.


let me explain what actually an atheist believes. he believes that in the end he will become nothing, leaving his life as a joke which is later forgotten. okay, let me put it this way, you are doing good things in this world for the sake of your children, then at the end both you and your children die a meaningless death. okay then, so you decided to live for the sake of humanity, then in the end everybody will die a meaningless death. and in the ultimate end, this Earth will finally meet its end, destroying everything, human's history, pride, achievements, good deeds, and even this discussion to dust. how is that meaningful? even if we do good things for the sake of others, we won't be able to get any benefits from it after we die, because we are, err, nothing.

But seriously, I am not satisfied with "it's good because god said so"


*giggle*. so, as you mentioned earlier, you are fine doing good things because society said so. or your mom said so. or you said so. just as long as god dont say so. maybe they are your 'god' without you realizing it.

personally I think life is way cooler without god because it is so unique and happened without magic.


well, when we are at the brink of our death, let's say we are barely clinging at a rope at the roof of a 40-storey abandoned building, and the rope is jusst about to break. what will one think? "oh, god, please save me!". "i hope a miracle will happen and i will be saved!".

hypocrite, aren't we?
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