exactly, political, Christian Europe had no want of a Muslim empire
Wait... what? If they wanted to retake a Holy Land (to them), and retake Jerusalem (the birthplace of Jesus), wouldn't they have wanted to change it to a Christian land? I mean, I figured that would be the main reason - to spread Religion, why else would they do it?
Well yeah we've done bad stuff in the past, but we've gotten better now. Well except for some Christians negative views on homosexuality. But for the most part we're good now.
Wait... what? If they wanted to retake a Holy Land (to them), and retake Jerusalem (the birthplace of Jesus), wouldn't they have wanted to change it to a Christian land? I mean, I figured that would be the main reason - to spread Religion, why else would they do it?
could it not be as simple as it united Europe and provided a focus to stop dissent in the church, it gave them more land more power more money, they found an exscuse to try and take it so they did, as simple as they thought they could get away with it, also as i said they had no want of a Muslim empire
Well yeah we've done bad stuff in the past, but we've gotten better now. Well except for some Christians negative views on homosexuality. But for the most part we're good now.
Please allow me to repeat myself from another page.
Indeed, there are arguments that Christians do not follow that idealogy, but what about if God didn't follow previous Christians' idealogy? If he didn't, he didn't do anything to stop people being murdered in the name of him, he didn't bother aiding those resisting Christianity with undeniable proof. If you follow Christianity, then sorry, but you are siding with Gods contradictory and pretty merciless behaviour (or lack of behaviour).
Found on page 3. <3
could it not be as simple as it united Europe and provided a focus to stop dissent in the church, it gave them more land more power more money, they found an exscuse to try and take it so they did, as simple as they thought they could get away with it, also as i said they had no want of a Muslim empire
No more dissent in the Church? Okay, I'm convinced it was political but I'm also fairly certain there was some religious influence, and not just for it to be their excuse. That, and I'd like to say it backfired, given how conflict arose between Christian Nations and etc during the Crusades. The Seventh and Eighth I believe going through without the Popes approval. :3
Whats this about.The sides of the argument are christian and atheist or as they are also known rational and irrational, having no proof and basically being a bit stupid
Whats this about.The sides of the argument are christian and atheist or as they are also known rational and irrational, having no proof and basically being a bit stupid
I hope you realize you're not helping right now.
nice try.
I was actually going to stay away from this thread until something popped up, a debate, then I decided that the "damage" is done and there's nothing to lose.
qwerty you really don't help anyone when you speak like that
Mostly political, partially Religious, correct?
yes, and no, at the upper levels of the church most likely a mix of of politics and misguided ideology, in the upper levels of the Christian crusader armies probably entirely political, and at the lower level most likely entirely religious
was the random bad thing that happen was it economical?
It was, it was something like her car breaking down. She was so sure it was a sign that she is going through an evil path and was so afraid of Divine wrath that she immediately payed everything he 'owed' to the church and never stopped paying them ever again.
Do you even know what the Crusades were? Seriously how the hell wouldn't the hundreds of thousands of people lived if the Crusades didn't occur? They're called the CRUSADES because they were CRUSADES, and saying its about money or politics is utter bull - it was to spread "the word of God".
I suggest you do a little research on the subject. Its not very questionable by historians that the motives behind the crusades were political and little more. Its also common sense if you understand the medieval culture but no need to get into that, just find a nice book in the library to explain it to you.
The thinkers were the scientists who told the "world being flat" people to stfu, and then they got killed for saying it was round. Why? Religion, it hinders scientific development at an extreme level. Also, non religious regimes? Example? There was pretty much ONLY religion before Darwin observed similiarities in animals and humans, developing the concept of Evolution.
They weren't prosecuted by Christianity because they wanted to make scientific discoveries. They where prosecuted because they had potential to make people question the churches place as ruling the people by showing the church was wrong about something. Another example for such a thing can be found in how in the USSR the government prosecuted Russian thinkers that had ideas against communism. There are countless other examples that can be found in totalitarian regimes.
The main point is that people twisted the religion to gain their own ends, wither by encouraging witch hunts or declaring crusades. Hell, I say there's a good chance the pope didn't even believe in Christianity when he declared the crusades. And by the way, its not only Christianity,in Islam for example the Koran does not ever mention Jerusalem but for political reasons Islam started to see it as a holy city in the middle ages and today. If you are wondering, similar twists of religion can be found in other religions as well, you just have to find them.
Also, Goblin, I'm against ALL religion, not just Christianity. I see how they can and are abused and the gains of such is only personal to those doing wrong, and that any thing possibly achieved through religion can just as easily be achieved without it.
They weren't prosecuted by Christianity because they wanted to make scientific discoveries. They where prosecuted because they had potential to make people question the churches place as ruling the people by showing the church was wrong about something.
It wasn't Christianity - it was Christians. Christians followed that idealogy and that's what came out of it.
Another example for such a thing can be found in how in the USSR the government prosecuted Russian thinkers that had ideas against communism. There are countless other examples that can be found in totalitarian regimes.
May I ask what's your point? It's not part of the debate, pointing them out and say "Well they did it" makes no difference, especially considering the Bible is supposed to be a Moral guideline - and yet it is wrong in oh so many ways.
Also, looking at some of the quotes that I believe Kasic did on another thread, the Old Testament isn't good, the abuse isn't good, and the general philosophy isn't good, and the INDIRECT OUTCOME isn't good.
i understand and to an extent ahgree with goblin, i mean in the middle ages people couldn't and weren't allowed to read the bible, they had to take the churches word for it, however the old testament is about as useful as the a diary of someone who is mentally unstable, well in fact it basically is, much of it is well, crap, and not part of christian teching at all, i have no idea why half of it hasnt been added to the apocrypha
Well yeah we've done bad stuff in the past, but we've gotten better now. Well except for some Christians negative views on homosexuality. But for the most part we're good now.
Don't forget about the constant attempts to suppress the advancement of knowledge.
