Atheists: What is your motivation? People of other religions such as Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, etc. wish to convert people because those people would go to Hell otherwise. But atheists have no such motivation. If it's because you think their lives would be better if they did not have to pay the tithing, how do you know that they are happier trading a little bit of money for a sense of inner peace and security? Jews: I could be completely wrong on this, but isn't it against the rules for Jews to go out and try to convert others to Judaism? If I am right, then what are you doing if not trying to convert people? Christians and Muslims: I think you know that you cannot convert people or change their minds via the internet, so why do you debate?
How is it really any different for a human to threaten a person with death if they don't convert then it is for God to threaten a person with eternal torment if they don't convert? It's interesting how when a human uses a threat to get people to convert it being forced but when God uses an arguably worse threat it's giving us our free will to choose.
How is it really any different for a human to threaten a person with death if they don't convert then it is for God to threaten a person with eternal torment if they don't convert? It's interesting how when a human uses a threat to get people to convert it being forced but when God uses an arguably worse threat it's giving us our free will to choose.
I think it depends on your idea of free will. I think of free will as choosing what you do. Even if it's influenced. I'm not saying conversions are ok, but that people still have free will. Free will can be pretty suckish at times but it's still free will.
I think it depends on your idea of free will. I think of free will as choosing what you do. Even if it's influenced. I'm not saying conversions are ok, but that people still have free will. Free will can be pretty suckish at times but it's still free will.
That really doesn't answer the question as to why when a human uses basically the same tactic God uses we regard that as forcing instead of allowing free will.
That really doesn't answer the question as to why when a human uses basically the same tactic God uses we regard that as forcing instead of allowing free will.
So... why do you regard it as forcing? They can't really force you. Just saying that you'll go to hell for not following them isn't forcing you.
So what your saying is someone being told to convert or die isn't forcing? This is basically the same as convert or go to hell.
Who says convert or die? I'm sure that happened often a long time ago, but now? Can't people be arrested for that? I'm pretty sure that you should be reporting these situations to the police.
My parents did. I was litterally shoved into the car on more than a few occasions in protest of not wanting to go to church.
I can understand this as being a type of forcing. But you were still able to choose against it eventually right? Sorry it happened like that. My dad isn't very religious and didn't really want me going to church because I often fell asleep.
I'm sure that happened often a long time ago, but now?
I'm talking about when it did happen. Though I'm pretty sure it still goes on in some places.
"Conversions aren't forced. We all have free will. You convert by choice. It's not like the spanish inquisition or the spanish in the 1500's are around anymore. Now Christians don't really force conversions, it's the choice of the person."
During the inquisition it was "convert or die". This is regarded as forced conversions. However God uses a very similar tactic with Hell. So how is it not being forced when the threat of hell is added but it is being forced when the threat of physical death is added?
I'm talking about when it did happen. Though I'm pretty sure it still goes on in some places.
Oh ok. Sorry, it's much clearer now.
During the inquisition it was "convert or die". This is regarded as forced conversions. However God uses a very similar tactic with Hell. So how is it not being forced when the threat of hell is added but it is being forced when the threat of physical death is added?
If you don't belive in hell why should it feel like force? If you don't even belive in god, doesn't it just sound like a very ignorant empty threat? How are you feeling forced?
But you were still able to choose against it eventually right?
Only after about two months of every sunday being physically forced to go to church after about an hour of protest before hand, yes. My parents aren't really very religious, just insanely stubborn and do not think they are ever wrong in anything.
If you don't belive in hell why should it feel like force? If you don't even belive in god, doesn't it just sound like a very ignorant empty threat? How are you feeling forced?
And Kasic.. wow :/ I feel for ya. I was in nowhere near as tough a position but I'd like to ask: Was their seemingly poor personal qualities a deterrance for you being religious? The "I don't like my mother and she smokes, I am discouraged from doing it" ideology?
If you don't belive in hell why should it feel like force? If you don't even belive in god, doesn't it just sound like a very ignorant empty threat? How are you feeling forced?
I'm speaking within the concept of it here. Yes I do see it as an idol threat, though it is still a threat any is seriously meant by those who use it.
Yes. I guess in that situation you would feel forced. As a kid I'm sure many kids feel forced. But later you still have the ability to choose. Like he choose to stop beliving. (He's atheist right?)
I'm speaking within the concept of it here. Yes I do see it as an idol threat, though it is still a threat any is seriously meant by those who use it.
Um... I don't really see how though... Maybe they see it as a threat, but if you don't then how is it one? It like if an ant threatened to kill you if you didn't become it slave. To the ant the threat might be very real. To you there is no threat, so why should it matter. Unless it become very annoying. Then you should start a restraining order.
(I just relized that my analogy was terrible and probably only made sense in my head. But thats the best I've got right now.)
