NOTE: This is not an anti religion post, simply a philosophical and age old debate.
Ok, so very very basically, here is an issue with the typical Christian view of God, a view shared by other religions, aside, however.
God is all good God is all powerful (omnipotent) God is all knowing
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
BUT - Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, i.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
BUT - if we want to still hold that he is all good, then there must be another reason murderers and tsunamis exist, but what? Maybe God created the world, and is not powerful enough to intervene. Then God is no longer all-powerful. Either that or he is powerful enough to intervene, and simply doesn't want to, in which case he is not all good. What do you think about all this?
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
God doesn't create murderers these people chose to be murderer and tsunamis arn't exactly evil they are created by earthquakes under the water. He allows all these things to happen he didn't create them.
God doesn't create murderers these people chose to be murderer and tsunamis arn't exactly evil they are created by earthquakes under the water. He allows all these things to happen he didn't create them.
Satan rules/controls the world. If he didn't, he couldn't have offered the kingdoms/land to Jesus in Matthew 4:8,9.
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
1) God does not make bad things happen, he allows them to happen. Through disaster there are many things learned and appriciated. Sometimes it takes us reaching rock bottom in order to really understand everything that God has blessed us with.
2) We are created in Gods image, not to be just like him. He created us "humans", giving us free will to make our own choices. He knows all the choices we will make, but ultimately gives us the free will to make our own mistakes for us to realize and understand at a different level. If we were all perfect than what would be the point?
God does not make bad things happen, he allows them to happen.
Then he's not all good.
Through disaster there are many things learned and appriciated. Sometimes it takes us reaching rock bottom in order to really understand everything that God has blessed us with.
Poor excuse for a supposed all powerful being who also supposedly created us.
We are created in Gods image, not to be just like him. He created us "humans", giving us free will to make our own choices. He knows all the choices we will make, but ultimately gives us the free will to make our own mistakes for us to realize and understand at a different level.
If he knows everything we will do before we do it then the choices would have to already be predetermined, not free will. This would also mean he is dooming people to hell as he already know who will end up there before they even exist.
If we were all perfect than what would be the point?
If we were perfect we wouldn't need to make mistakes to "realize and understand at different levels". The point would be to create a world without the suffering.
God doesn't create murderers these people chose to be murderer and tsunamis arn't exactly evil they are created by earthquakes under the water. He allows all these things to happen he didn't create them.
Most murders are flawed in a way that would lead them to murder, this would be on God's head for making them so flawed. Tsunamis and other natural disasters by allowing them also has God allowing an undue amount of suffering which is bad. This is why an all good deity would not allow such events to take place.
Tsunamis and other natural disasters by allowing them also has God allowing an undue amount of suffering
There was a typo in the original plan. He intended to write, "and let there be an extreme amount of surfing from tsunamies!" but instead hit the wrong keys and wrote, "and let there be an extreme amount of suffering from tsunamies!" ;D
This is why an all good deity would not allow such events to take place
I think you could get away with an all loving deity who lets us have free will - if everyone went to heaven afterwards and was not punished for any wrongdoings they did in ignorance or from worldly problems.
Don't people worship (in less extreme ways) morals and values that they follow in their life. They hold them to a very high regard. Why would this be different?
Except for the fact theat morals aren't said to be alive, it's kindof the same idea.
I know this part of the discussion was a while back, but I think it's worth bringing back.
DSM:
Lets pretend you were a god. And you were all knowing.
A man who gonna kill his entire familly in a week.
He is on hes way home from work. You can choose to kill him in car accident now to prevent his entire familly get killed, or let him live.
What would you choose?
If you kill him now, then it means you killed a innocent man. If you dont kill him now, then it means his familly will get killed. If you kill him after he killed his familly, then it to late.
So just because you are all knowing, and can do anything. Doesnt mean you can make a better place. That why both heaven and hell exist.
MageGrayWolf:
Being all knowing I would know exactly what I could say to him to talk him out of doing this action. Being all powerful I could take him to a place or put him in a situation where he could never reach his family, without killing him. Being all knowing and all good I would be compelled to intervene before such a disaster happened.
MageGrayWolf, If you, as a god, interfered at all, then the person would no longer have free will, that is why God Himself must allow these things to happen. He allows them to happen to give us free will.
MageGrayWolf:
If he knows everything we will do before we do it then the choices would have to already be predetermined, not free will. This would also mean he is dooming people to hell as he already know who will end up there before they even exist.
Think of it this way: God is watching humanity as an improv (actors have no script and make things up as they go) movie. Except he has already seen the movie before, so he knows what is going to happen. He did not choose what happened, the "actors" did. God also does not "doom" people to hell. God can simply not tolerate sinful souls to be with him eternally. So that is why there must be a hell.
God can simply not tolerate sinful souls to be with him eternally.
he made them sinfull. whitout him there was no sins. and even if he doesn't have controle over that then he is not almighty. he should forgive those people from their sins like is said in the bible "all forgiving" or "he forgives us all from our sins"
MageGrayWolf, If you, as a god, interfered at all, then the person would no longer have free will, that is why God Himself must allow these things to happen. He allows them to happen to give us free will.
Yet we have plenty of examples where God does interfere, accept he usually does so by killing the person. Doing the good thing does sometimes require interference. But as Somewhat49 said just talking them out of it wouldn't be going against their free will.
Think of it this way: God is watching humanity as an improv (actors have no script and make things up as they go) movie. Except he has already seen the movie before, so he knows what is going to happen. He did not choose what happened, the "actors" did. God also does not "doom" people to hell. God can simply not tolerate sinful souls to be with him eternally. So that is why there must be a hell.
Even with your example it requires that the events be predestined. God knows what will happen in this "movie" because things can't happen any other way.
Also this whole "God can't be around sin part, doesn't that preclude another aspect that many attribute to him, his omnipresence? You can't be omnipresent and not be around something. Even if there was a hell God would have to be there as well in order to be omnipresent.
