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stormwolf722
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stormwolf722
227 posts
Nomad

Well a lot of people have been telling me evolution is real. They give me the most craziest surreal 'facts'. Has anyone discovered any fish with legs? Any humans with gills or fins? If you put all the pieces of a watch into you're pocket and shake it around for trillions of years, will it ever become a watch? Is there but one possibility? Or if you completely dismantle a chicken and a fish, and put it into a box, shaking it around for trillions of years. Will it ever become a fish with wings? or a chicken with fins? :l

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

The Bible can't possible be a moral guide since it promotes molesting children. Why else would all preachers be trying to molest alter boys? Even Jesus promoted molesting children. The Bible couldn't possible be true because Zeus came first. It's a fact Zeus exists because we know lightning exists.

If you find what I have said to be completely absurd, fallacious and doesn't at all address what the Bible actually says. Only making it look like I'm completely ignorant of what I'm talking about. Then you know what it's like for those like myself see a creationist argue against a scientific theory like evolution.
This is why I would prefer for those of you who wish to argue against the theory, to first understand what the theory states and have a basic understanding of scientific terms before trying.

Well, this is in the E-bombs, but the greatest breakthrough for me is when they found "Lucy".


How about the buzz about a later Australopithecus specimen found?

Here's the news hype on it.
African fossils put new spin on human origins story

And here is a break down of that hype, to help weed out the news sensationalism.
Australopithecus sediba: The Hype-Cycle Starts Again
SSTG
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SSTG
13,055 posts
Treasurer

Maybe the word evolution should be replaced with transformation.
Did you notice when you look at pictures from late 1800 how different people look? I'm not talking about their clothing but their faces especially. They also seem to be much shorter than we are now.

And there's also a question I've been asking myself for years.
Why does it have to be a beginning? What if everything is a cycle?
The atoms, molecules, planets are spherical, etc, so I don't see why everything else wouldn't be just a cycle (circle). Trees loses their leaves, they fall on the ground, decompose, nourishes the ground that grows plants, etc.

If the theory that dinosaurs shrunk and turned to birds in order to survive, I wonder how the humans will look like if the Earth became so hot that only underground creatures could survive? Would we shrink and start crawling again?

So many questions...

master565
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master565
4,104 posts
Nomad

I don't want to start a fight. It is clear that I believe in creation and you guys believe in evolution. That said, I don't see what else there is to talk about.


Basically you come onto a thread who's purpose is to argue evolution, and say you don't want to argue because people have different beliefs from you (not to mention you ignored all the facts presented)
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Maybe the word evolution should be replaced with transformation.


I don't think playing word games would make much of a difference.

And there's also a question I've been asking myself for years.
Why does it have to be a beginning? What if everything is a cycle?
The atoms, molecules, planets are spherical, etc, so I don't see why everything else wouldn't be just a cycle (circle). Trees loses their leaves, they fall on the ground, decompose, nourishes the ground that grows plants, etc.


I'm failing to see your point here. Evolution only covers the diversity of life and states that it changes over time though successive generations. It does not cover the beginning of life.

If the theory that dinosaurs shrunk and turned to birds in order to survive, I wonder how the humans will look like if the Earth became so hot that only underground creatures could survive? Would we shrink and start crawling again?


Being surface creature we would likely be in trouble. If we assume there were enough humans grouped together underground to sustain the species it's unlikely we wouldn't lose traits. Given our ability to adapt and adapt our environment around us, it's likely as a species we really wouldn't need to change much to survive.
SSTG
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SSTG
13,055 posts
Treasurer

I'm failing to see your point here. Evolution only covers the diversity of life and states that it changes over time though successive generations. It does not cover the beginning of life.


I had the big picture in mind. Isn't evolution directly related to environment changes?
Our environment being Earth and Earth being part of the Universe, everything is connected I think.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

The Bible can't possible be a moral guide since it promotes molesting children. Why else would all preachers be trying to molest alter boys? Even Jesus promoted molesting children. The Bible couldn't possible be true because Zeus came first. It's a fact Zeus exists because we know lightning exists


For a moment there I thought you lost your sanity Mage, haha.....
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I had the big picture in mind. Isn't evolution directly related to environment changes?
Our environment being Earth and Earth being part of the Universe, everything is connected I think.


Looking at the big picture we have to look at multiple theories. The topic is about a specific theory. Think of it like subjects in school. Each one is handled by a different class, like how different observations are handled by a different theory.

For a moment there I thought you lost your sanity Mage, haha.....


Would have to have it first to lose it....
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

They are a species that is similar to species pretty much only found in fossils, happy? :P

Correct terminology is important!..... yeah, I'm happy now^^ Speaking of terminology, today we'd rather call species like the coelacanth a panchronic species. I think that makes sense..

On the platypus thing, it's interesting. Well, birds and reptiles are still rather close I think, even more at the moment when the platypus ancestors emerged, so it's no wonder traces of both were found, but that it's also a genetically identifiable mix of 'reptiles' and mammals is cool. Doesn't that mean that somehow the platypus is a very basal animal despite being somehow very specialized compared to other mammals.... wait..

If the theory that dinosaurs shrunk and turned to birds in order to survive,

Um, weird formulation. Dinosaurs didn't shrink in size to survive and become birds, it's that only the ancestors of birds, who were smaller kinds of feathered raptors, survived and the others not. The way you formulated it somehow means there was a goal, which is false.
stormwolf722
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stormwolf722
227 posts
Nomad

Haveb't checked this is a while T_T
Look, I still don't understand. Its too crappy... And I'm not here to talk about my beliefs, just about evolution. Yes I believe creation happened.
If we 'evolved' into apes, how come we still have them and they aren't evolving? -_-

148725Nicosia
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148725Nicosia
32 posts
Nomad

I believe that the creation story and a mixed form of evolution are both true. God created all the animals and plants and other organisms and those organisms evolved. I'm not talking about something super drastic like a dinosaur turning into a chicken but minor things like a human being born naturally stronger because all his parents did was things that require strenght. I think that evolutions like those simply developed very slowly over time.

waluigi
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waluigi
1,946 posts
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I may make myself sound like a fool, but here goes nothing.


I now change this to I definitely made myself sound like a fool. This is why I stay out of religion threads mostly; I can't argue worth crap and can never elaborate enough on my religious viewpoints.
dair5
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dair5
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Shepherd

If we 'evolved' into apes, how come we still have them and they aren't evolving? -_-


Okay. Lets say there are two type of Apes. zthere are the kind like gorillas that we see, and there are these other apes who are skinny and weak and are sorta bald. So far the gorillas are dominant and they're so strong that they can just kill whatever animal tries to attack them. The other apes though, are being killed constantly. They are too weak to defend themselves. But, they learn to use weapons, to defend themselves, to fight, ect... They travel away from their enviornment with their weapons into a colder place with less sun. Now they need more hair and less melatonin in their skin. They need to use their brain to make clothes from animal hide to stay warm. They need to learn to control fire, to start civilizations, you get the idea. The gorillas didn't need to evolve to survive. And sometimes, when animals need to evolve but can't, they just die out.

Here is a wiki on evolution. Which should explain evoultion in a much more accurate, though slightly more complicated way.

Get it?
314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Haveb't checked this is a while T_T
Look, I still don't understand. Its too crappy... And I'm not here to talk about my beliefs, just about evolution. Yes I believe creation happened.
If we 'evolved' into apes, how come we still have them and they aren't evolving? -_-


*Facepalm*

Have you even read any of this thread? Just read mage's from the last few pages and I am sure he mentioned this some time.

I believe that the creation story and a mixed form of evolution are both true. God created all the animals and plants and other organisms and those organisms evolved. I'm not talking about something super drastic like a dinosaur turning into a chicken but minor things like a human being born naturally stronger because all his parents did was things that require strenght. I think that evolutions like those simply developed very slowly over time.


Why?

And that isn't even how evolution works. It doesn't mater what the person did in their life, it maters what genes they have. Small mutations happen that build up, it isn't "Your dad studied really hard so you will be smart" it is a process of mutations...Maybe you should read up on the subject?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

If we 'evolved' into apes, how come we still have them and they aren't evolving? -_-


Groups split up. This is part of the mechanism of change in evolution known as Migration. It's one of the important factors in genetic variation. One group can experience vast changes while the other does not. As for other primates they have evolved as well, they just didn't evolve in the way we did.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_14

God created all the animals and plants and other organisms and those organisms evolved. I'm not talking about something super drastic like a dinosaur turning into a chicken but minor things like a human being born naturally stronger because all his parents did was things that require strenght. I think that evolutions like those simply developed very slowly over time.


This isn't what we observe. We don't have a point where there was no life then suddenly there were plants and animals. What we do find are simple organisms that over time take on more complex forms. leading up to what we have today. We also find all plants and animals we have today not going back all the way to the first incarnations. For instance you will never find a Precambrian rabbit or any mammal from that time period for that matter.
What puts a restriction on how far genetic diversity can go in changes? If you accept that a small change in genetics can occur then what's preventing a number of small changed culminating in a large difference from what you started with?
When one group has gone through enough small changes so that they can't or won't interbreed with the group they start with we call this speciation and regard this as a new species.
Here is a graphic representation I made to demonstrate how small changes can lead to a large change. Think of each square as a new generation. As a small change occurs in each generation we eventually end up with a complete different color, much in the same way how one species transitions into another.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/MageGrayWolf/Evolution/evo1.jpg

On a side note technically chickens are a subset of dinosaurs.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

but minor things like a human being born naturally stronger because all his parents did was things that require strenght.


That's not how evolution works. It was one of the earlier proposals on the means by which evolution functions but was found to be false. Use does not mean it will evolve that.

However, it could happen similarly to this. Let's say that a group of primates selects mates based on if the male can overpower the female or vis-versa. Natural selection would occur in that the weaker members of the species would be unable to reproduce, whilst the stronger members would pass on their genes. So the weaker members would die out and the stronger members would procreate, which would lead to the next generation having the genes of the strong. That generation would then do the same, and the weaker members would not procreate again. Over a long period of time, the species would be on average stronger than before.
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