ForumsWEPREvolution

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stormwolf722
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stormwolf722
227 posts
Nomad

Well a lot of people have been telling me evolution is real. They give me the most craziest surreal 'facts'. Has anyone discovered any fish with legs? Any humans with gills or fins? If you put all the pieces of a watch into you're pocket and shake it around for trillions of years, will it ever become a watch? Is there but one possibility? Or if you completely dismantle a chicken and a fish, and put it into a box, shaking it around for trillions of years. Will it ever become a fish with wings? or a chicken with fins? :l

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trakds
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trakds
20 posts
Jester

"These men have such wonderful theories that it really seems surprising that they do
not themselves make a few worlds, since they profess to have found out so many
ways of making them."

Charles Spurgeon.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

"These men have such wonderful theories that it really seems surprising that they do
not themselves make a few worlds, since they profess to have found out so many
ways of making them."

Charles Spurgeon.


1) Posting a quote alone is spam.

2) So because we know how stuff happens we should be able to say abracadabra and reproduce it?

3) AGAIN, this is the Evolution topic. Either talk about evolution or don't post here.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

"These men have such wonderful theories that it really seems surprising that they do
not themselves make a few worlds, since they profess to have found out so many
ways of making them."

Charles Spurgeon.


what about you actualy speak back about we have to tell you and not just quote random lines from some1. wich are also irrelevant to what the discussion is about?

aka, speak for yourself. don't use Charles Spurgeon's words, he wasn't part of the debate.
or atleast add some of your own words. not ONLY a quote.
macfan1
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macfan1
421 posts
Nomad

"If you're wrong and hell exists, you would go there too."


Maybe you can't prove if hell exists or not, but it's better to be safe. By the way, that belongs in the heaven and hell thread. ( http://armorgames.com/community/thread/9238938/heaven-and-hell ).
Kasic
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Kasic
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Jester

Maybe you can't prove if hell exists or not, but it's better to be safe.


Did you not read the 5 posts saying that Pascal's Wager is false?

By the way, that belongs in the heaven and hell thread.


Indeed it does.

Now, anything on Evolution?
partydevil
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partydevil
5,129 posts
Jester

By the way, that belongs in the heaven and hell thread.


=O

Now, anything on Evolution?


i'll thorw in the card that evolution isn't true because:

if it was then we would see rabits whit cat legs and rhino's whit girafe necks.
(or something like that it was)
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

if it was then we would see rabits whit cat legs and rhino's whit girafe necks.
(or something like that it was)


-.-"

You could at least try to throw in an argument that isn't asinine. Just so the creationists don't leap onto this, this isn't true for two reasons.

1) Evolution doesn't claim that this could happen, if it did, that'd completely kill the theory.

2) Things evolve gradually, a giraffe will never spontaneously give birth to a rhino. (Not that a giraffe would ever evolve into a rhino...)
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

Creation Seminar 1 - Kent Hovind - Age of the Earth (FULL)

Kent Hovind? Seriously? HaHaHaHaHa! Even as far as creationists go this guy is a joke.


Oh wait my mother is a teacher, she can tell me why evolution isn't real.


You've said your mom is a biologist and a chemist. I was wondering how many peer review papers has she written?

At any rate I will be waiting for this great bit of advice.

All I can do is try to tell you the truth.


That's fine, but you need supporting evidence and not just emotional pleas to call it truth.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Guys, there's a private messenger for a reason...

Aaaanyhow, something on evolution! Specifically for those creationists lurking around here. Something for you to read, don't worry it's understandable, it's not PhD level or so. It's about the fact vs. theory thing, resp. the reason why evolution is considered both fact AND theory. Here's the Link.
Quick summary: common descent is fact, the exact mechanism is (scientific) theory.

Have fun.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I was browsing through some news articles and came across this.
Human origins traced to worm fossil in Canada

Basically all chordates, which include humans may have evolved from this worm. So we could be looking at our direct descendant here, at the very least a good representative of what that descendant looked like.
http://paleobiology.si.edu/burgess/imgBurgess/pikaia.gif
http://paleobiology.si.edu/burgess/pikaia.html

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Pikaia_BW.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikaia

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Interesting. It does have similarities with the lancelet, as said in the first link. The lancelet, having a chorda dorsalis, is probably the next step in the list of representatives of our evolution (though the lancelet itself belongs more to a sister group of ourselves).

It's very interesting to trace back the developments made during the vertebrate evolution. It's also a domain that is conveniently well documented^^

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Branchiostoma_lanceolatum.jpg/250px-Branchiostoma_lanceolatum.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancelet

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

deathbewithyou

Oh wait my mother is a teacher, she can tell me why evolution isn't real.


Oh yeah, still waiting for this sage advice from your mom.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Seeing as I would like for this topic not to die and I just happened on an apologetics site with creationist arguments, I figured why not give another round of "what's wrong with that argument".

Interestingly enough this comes from someone claiming to have a Ph.D, so you know you can "trust" anything he says....
There are several Dave Millers listed on wiki who have Ph.Ds. If I were to guess however, I would go with this one.

Here we have the article in question.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/APContent.aspx?category=9&article=2642

Another earthshaking find within the evolutionary community only spotlights once again the inherent irrationality of the faltering, fallacious theory. During a Southeast Asian expedition, retired Florida State University science professor, David Redfield, captured the first photos of the Laotian rock rat, once believed to have gone extinct more than 11 million years ago. The fossilized remains, collected previously from sites in Pakistan, India, Thailand, China, and Japan, were thought to verify this last known relative of a long-extinct family of rodents known as Diatomyidae (âRetired Professor Captures...,â 2006). Surprise, surpriseâ"another alleged âancestorâ eliminated from the tattered evolutionary tree.

Observe the two contrasting, conflicting, mutually exclusive approaches to the created realm:

1. Evolution: All animals we see today are advanced forms of primitive precursors, and descendants of a single ancestor. As more advanced forms have evolved by means of adaptation, natural selection, survival of the fittest, and genetic mutation, the earlier forms were naturally displaced and disappeared. Fossils, millions of years old, represent life forms that were the evolutionary predecessors of present life forms, but which went extinct long ago.

2. Creation: God created a spectrum of animals during the six-day week of Creation. While reproducing only after their own âkindâ (an ambiguous Hebrew term that likely parallels the modern taxonomic classification âfamilyâ), these animals were created with the genetic potential for producing a variety of other species, giving rise to the diversity of animal life presently on the planet. Along the way, due mostly to environmental factors, many animals have become extinct. However, other species have escaped detection by humans for centuries, only to be rediscovered in some remote area.

Which of these two viewpoints fits the actual physical facts? Obviously, the latter. Evolutionists repeatedly find themselves in the embarrassing position of discovering that the alleged evolutionary ancestors of current life forms, that supposedly went extinct millions of years ago, are in fact still living. They are forced to cover their tracks by inventing a self-contradictory, nonsensical term to identify these anomaliesâ"in this case, âliving fossils.â But thatâs like a round square. Philosophers and logicians refer to such duplicitous posturing as irrational and âlogical contradiction.â Evolutionists call it âscience.â


I will give you two clues since this hasn't been done in a while. "eliminated from the tattered evolutionary tree" and "living fossils". Now can you work out what fallacies and/or flat out lies he is using here?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Farmer

There are several Dave Millers listed on wiki who have Ph.Ds. If I were to guess however, I would go with this one.


Scratch that, just noticed they have his profile linked to his name in the article.

http://www.apologeticspress.org/dm.aspx
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

During a Southeast Asian expedition, retired Florida State University science professor, David Redfield, captured the first photos of the Laotian rock rat, once believed to have gone extinct more than 11 million years ago. The fossilized remains, collected previously from sites in Pakistan, India, Thailand, China, and Japan, were thought to verify this last known relative of a long-extinct family of rodents known as Diatomyidae (�Retired Professor Captures...,� 2006).

First, the living species is a descendant of the fossil species. No species doesn't evolve at all over 11 million years; same for the coelacanth: it's not a species, but a group of species, that include extinct fossil ones and extant living ones.

Second, if we really found a living ancestor, that means we have the opportunity to expand the 'occurence line' for this embranchement to today; nothing is being contradicted, just outdated conclusions being replaced by newer and more accurate ones.

Surprise, surpriseâ�"another alleged â��ancestorâ�� eliminated from the tattered evolutionary tree.

I really have no clue what he means by that? Nothing was eliminated, in the contrary, new data was added to the tree?

1. Evolution: All animals we see today are advanced forms of primitive precursors,

'Primitive' in evolutionary terms means 'basal', not less advanced. There's no direction, no perfection; no goal.

As more advanced forms have evolved by means of adaptation, natural selection, survival of the fittest, and genetic mutation, the earlier forms were naturally displaced and disappeared.

Um.. displaced and disappeared? they evolved into something, fossils are just snapshots of their ancestors. It's as if he's saying that a species was eradicated and gave place to a new one..

Evolutionists repeatedly find themselves in the embarrassing position of discovering that the alleged evolutionary ancestors of current life forms, that supposedly went extinct millions of years ago, are in fact still living.

Again, if there's two extant groups of an extinct fossil species, that only means you have two extant sister groups/sister species. That doesn't invalidate the ancestry.

And again, the term 'living fossil' is scientifically not correct/accurate and mostly used by their opponents, since it conveys false assumptions: that the fossil and the extant species are the same, which they are not; and also that evolution didn't occur in that group, which it did, simply at different rates.
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