Let's pretend that the soldiers put a kick me sign on the backs of the dead bodies instead of pissing on them. To me, it's like having a bunch of people getting offended that the bodies have immature paper signs on their backs while they forget that the soldiers KILLED these people.
Whilst I can understand where you're coming from in one respect, imagine if the situation was reversed. Say my brother gets killed over there, what do you think would upset me more, him being returned with a 'kick me' sign or wreaking of the enemies urine?
Silly argument, I know, because the army wouldn't send him home in the state they found him, but you get the general idea.
I accept it goes on from all sides, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. If I was over there, I wouldn't have the urge to urinate on someone I'd killed, I'd be far more interested in getting on with the job I'm supposed to be doing.
Saying all that, we still don't know the context of this at all. It looks like there are 5 men in the team (someone had to be filming) and I'm not familiar with unit sizes in the US. Did the Taliban kill one or some of them? Did they see a corpse desecrated by the enemy, so decided to enact revenge? Or were they all just having a happy wee wee on the corpse for the fun of it?
Well, I would say that since he has been on the ground, he would know his way around the topic at hand more than all of us eh?
Okay, but do you think he's the only ex-soldier in this thread? Just because he's announced he was sent to Iraq with the army, that automatically means he knows all about it?
I have a mate who is currently stationed in Afghanistan, he'll never see the front line because of his job over there, would he have any insight more than the next man into this?
Whilst I can understand where you're coming from in one respect, imagine if the situation was reversed. Say my brother gets killed over there, what do you think would upset me more, him being returned with a 'kick me' sign or wreaking of the enemies urine?
Him coming back dead. (that is the point you missed)
"Alright men! We're going to take over this area and we have been given permission to kill hostiles! I don't want anyone to mistreat any of the dead bodies!"
~"Sir, why is that?"
"The enemy may find it offensive!"
~"But, we're going in to kill these people who are trying to kill us?"
"This is war, son! Death is going to occur! We know this, and so do our enemies! If we treat their comrades that we killed with care, they will not be offended."
~"So, why do we need to avoid offending our enemies, the very same people we are trying to kill?"
"Just because we're in the middle of a war doesn't mean we have to act like savages! Nobody likes hurt feelings! Now go out there and kill some god **** sand ******s!"
"Alright men! We're going to take over this area and we have been given permission to kill hostiles! I don't want anyone to mistreat any of the dead bodies!"
~"Sir, why is that?"
"The enemy may find it offensive!"
~"But, we're going in to kill these people who are trying to kill us?"
"This is war, son! Death is going to occur! We know this, and so do our enemies! If we treat their comrades that we killed with care, they will not be offended."
~"So, why do we need to avoid offending our enemies, the very same people we are trying to kill?"
"Just because we're in the middle of a war doesn't mean we have to act like savages! Nobody likes hurt feelings! Now go out there and kill some god **** sand ******s!"
Bit over the top, but you can imagine now the briefing will be "No videos" from now on.
Is it disrespectful to the dead? Aye. Did the Afghans bring this upon themselves? Debatable. Is this inhuman? Nay. Sure, that's definitely the wrong way to handle victory, but a degree of honor should be kept between men of war. A soldier has to remember that his enemy had the same fears and worries as him, and worked just as hard to try and make sure he didn't get killed. The least he could do is treat the body of his fallen and worthy foe with a degree of respect.
Should their superiors do something about this? Definitely. It makes the US look arrogant, and while it is true that the USA is the most powerful nation on Earth, that doesn't mean we can just go around pissing on bodies. We just start to become as inhuman as the monsters we had to put down, after which left us in this position of power.
Should their superiors do something about this? Definitely. It makes the US look arrogant, and while it is true that the USA is the most powerful nation on Earth, that doesn't mean we can just go around pissing on bodies.
It just means we can go around killing people...
We just start to become as inhuman as the monsters we had to put down, after which left us in this position of power.
Murder doesn't make one inhuman, urinating on their dead bodies makes them inhuman.
...well, at least not all of it. ( I did read some, tho)
"All's fair in love and war." I was going to say some of this before I read some of Nemo's posts, so I'll just state it in my own words anyway.
What do you think happens to "men" on the battlefield? What do you think goes through their minds when they have to plant a round between some 5 year old's eyes who is running/firing at them with a deadly weapon? I want you to think about how being forced to do things like that would possibly destroy you mentally. It's a safe bet that it'd destroy any sane person's sanity. This isn't a duel where you take 10 paces turn and fire... this is hell in almost every sense of the term. I'd imagine that most people would have to devolve to some degree mentally into some primal animal who just survives off of their most carnal of instincts.
These aren't always men beating their chests over their accomplishments. They are animals doing what they can to get by. Let's say one particular sniper takes out two of your best friends and you're scared crapless... you then somehow manage to take him out instead of viceversa. You're so livid with rage that you don't come back to your senses until after the pieces of what was his already dead body are strewn about and mutilated beyond recognition.
War isn't a gentleman's sport. Sure, sending the guy's body back to his momma in pristine condition is a nicety that would be great to have, but you can't expect something as emotionally traumatizing as war/fire fights to manufacture and instill fair play and a gentleman's code of conduct in any of its participants. Part of you has to die inside, or part of you already has to be dead.
PTSD - POST traumatic stress disorder has that POST part b/c it occurs after a very traumatic/stressful event... LIKE WAR. The traumatic atrocities one has to witness/commit change you.... changes good/decent people into killers
...and another thing, this is about the very same people who cut off POW heads among other things. If we were supposed to be all honorable to everyone, then why shouldn't they just put a single round in the POW's heart and let his momma have an open casket? I'd imagine it being irksome for someone to have to fight known body mutilators and torturers as a gentleman... especially when they've committed such acts on his own friends and acquaintances. Remaining gentleman in a bloodbath is a pretty idea, but that's about it.
Frankly, what bothers me most is the fact that they filmed the whole thing. A lot of unsavory and distasteful actions are understandable when at war, perhaps even "justifiable" to some degree. Urinating on dead bodies is, in my opinion, one of these somewhat "excusable" distasteful actions. Simply because its hardly a heinous crime. Anyway, in my opinion, filming said actions is more of a wrongdoing. Personally, I think that filming it so some of you and others like you could enjoy the replaying of it, its extremely unhealthy and sadistic.
Bottom line: its no big deal, but they shouldn't have filmed it.
no they did this so we do that, they do that so we do this. but then we do this because you do that. now you crossed the line by doing that we are going to do this. ow yea? well we can do that too. here! they did this so we do that, they do that so we do this. but then we do this because you do that. now you crossed the line by doing that we are going to do this. ow yea? well we can do that too. here!
no they did this so we do that, they do that so we do this. but then we do this because you do that. now you crossed the line by doing that we are going to do this. ow yea? well we can do that too. here! they did this so we do that, they do that so we do this. but then we do this because you do that. now you crossed the line by doing that we are going to do this. ow yea? well we can do that too. here!
get the point? it's useless people, get over it.
Rephrase They sent a message that there dead should not be insulted.
ikr. You can blow a guy into tiny pieces with a JDAM strike, because that's not insulting at all. As long as the missile wasn't urine-soaked, it's fine.
