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44Flames
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44Flames
585 posts
Nomad

I am catholic so I believe that there is heaven and hell. I do beleive that you have to do good in this world to be able to go to heaven but if you do evil and bad more than good in this world I do believe that you will go to hell.

Heaven it is hard to concept the thought of living for eternity in heaven and that everything would be perfect and everyone would be nice and kind.

Hell it is also very hard to think that you will be punished for many years until getting the chance to go to heaven. Also you could be in hell for eternity suffering if you do very bad things in this world.

What is you thought on heaven and hell?

Do you beleive in heaven and hell?

Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?

Is God really real?

Discuss, it can be short or long answers or views.

  • 811 Replies
Omashu
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Omashu
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Nomad

I get it but we will never be able to prove if the magical aspects were real and true. Because that nobody else can do magic in the whole world. But that is the reason that Jesus is so special.


But why does Jesus deserve these 'special powers,' and before him, God? How did they obtain these traits? No one else has any magic inside them, nor has their ever been any strong evidence proving otherwise.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

But why does Jesus deserve these 'special powers,' and before him, God? How did they obtain these traits? No one else has any magic inside them, nor has their ever been any strong evidence proving otherwise.


Going even further there is no evidence of magic of any sort in us or otherwise. Thus making the claim of magic all that more suspect.
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
5,340 posts
Farmer

thats why iput phyisical in " ". we believe in the same god but they believe that he does this and acts this way while we believe he does that and acts that way. we believe in the same person in different ways. the begining of those 3 religions is almost the same and the same god is there. this is why i said phyiscially. its as if its the same body with a different personality.

nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,990 posts
Grand Duke

Same body + different personality is pretty much saying it's a different person, since personalities are an integral part of identities.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

its as if its the same body with a different personality.


Pretty sure that's a physiological disorder.
Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

we believe in the same god but they believe that he does this and acts this way while we believe he does that and acts that way.


It's far more than just actions or perceptions, though. Here's a much simpler proof.

CG: Christian God
NCG: Non-Christian God

1) CG has a son (Jesus). (given)
2) NCG does not have a son. (given)
3) If 2 objects have different properties, then they are not identical. (from Leibniz's law of identity)
4) NCG and CG have different properties (from 1 and 2)
C) Therefore, NCG and CG are not identical. (from 3 and 4)

This argument is deductive valid and it's sound. You could deny (1) and thus deny a basic commitment of Christianity. Or you could deny (3), but that would be supremely irrational.
44Flames
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44Flames
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Nomad

Yes I agree that different religions have different God's. But both God's are the same (Christain and Jewsih religion) because I thought that Christain God was the Jewish God just in the Christain religion God had a son and in the Jewish religion they don't beleive God had a son.

44Flames
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44Flames
585 posts
Nomad

I don't think we have said what Heaven and Hell might look like.

Just think of creative ways of what you think Heaven or Hell looks like?

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,253 posts
Regent

I don't think we have said what Heaven and Hell might look like.

Is it that important? You'll see, if you are right

Just think of creative ways of what you think Heaven or Hell looks like?

So we, what.. make up things?

Anyway, there's actually a place that nicely portrais what I think is the most common view of how hell might look like (see the small people in the upper right corner?):

Wiki article
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/65/The_Door_to_Hell.jpg/800px-The_Door_to_Hell.jpg

I think they where foraging for gas and the gas chamber collapsed. They decided to put the gas on fire to avoid it diffusing around and poison things. It's still burning after, what, 41 years?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Just think of creative ways of what you think Heaven or Hell looks like?


Your request for us to just make stuff up and call it real does fit quite well inline with religion. However it also does demonstrate why we shouldn't accept such claims as fact.
goumas13
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goumas13
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Grand Duke

Was you guy talk about the Big Bang in science where who create by 3 theory?.

Que paso muchacho? You are not making much sense ...
What do you mean by "where who create by 3 theory"? Actually, what's the "create by 3 theory"?
xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
4,710 posts
Blacksmith

Just think of creative ways of what you think Heaven or Hell looks like?

Your request for us to just make stuff up and call it real does fit quite well inline with religion. However it also does demonstrate why we shouldn't accept such claims as fact.

pawned/owned (i dont know which one fits better).

weeeeell, we dont even know how god/s or devil are looking...imagine an allmighty and wise......stone.

even if there is a heven/hell we will know how they look, depending to which place we go, if they exist. nobody came back after death to tell us how they look, or am i wrong?

goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

nobody came back after death to tell us how they look, or am i wrong?

Allegedly Jesus came back from the dead (FYI not as a zombie, he was just resurrected). But, he didn't really explicitly describe neither heaven nor hell.
LegoMyLego27
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LegoMyLego27
100 posts
Shepherd

hey, the sign when you enter WV says something about it being as good as heaven, WV sucks! so, hell sounds better

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

But both God's are the same


So this denies the conclusion

just in the Christain religion God had a son and in the Jewish religion they don't beleive God had a son.


This affirms (1) and (2), but it denies (3). That's certainly one way to go, but denying the law of identity just doesn't seem right.

Maybe you're saying this: Jews pray to the same god as Christians, it's just that Jews believe (falsely) that God has no son. An analogue would be believing of Mr. Smith (falsely) that he does not have a son. You can still refer to Mr. Smith, even if you're wrong about this one thing. His identity stays fixed regardless of what you believe about him.

The problem is that we can't ostensibly refer to God. I can't say 'That man over there' like I can with Mr. Smith. Also, having a son is not an intrinsic part of Mr. Smith's nature as it is with God. Part of the Christian god's identity is Jesus himself - it is a property of god that cannot be removed without changing the identity of god. This isn't so with Mr. Smith - who would continue to be identical to himself even if he had never had a kid.
Thus the analogy breaks down because humans only have accidental (rather than intrinsic) properties in this respect. God, on the other hand, has a specific definition. It's like saying that Mr. X, despite being married, is a bachelor. At that point, we can't be talking about the same man.
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