Forums → WEPR → The world has gotten wimpy!
| 64 | 18839 |
I remember the days when family, friends and neighbors used to stop by my house uninvited, and we'd let them in and we'd have a great time and stay up and party all night. Nowadays it's like: *Doorbell rings* "OMG! PANIC! HIDE UNDER THE COUCH AND BEHIND THE KITCHEN COUNTER! GET THE PHONE READY TO CALL 911! *Dad goes to look through the peep-hole and says:* "Oh, it's just the mailman with a package for us." Does that happen to anyone else?
-
I also remember the days when me and my neighborhood buddies (this was when I was like 10 years old or so) used to go all over the neighborhood with water-guns and squirt each other and have an awesome time independently. Then we'd go to the park and goof around and play tag, cops and robbers, and cowboys and indians. Nowadays... Kids put safety helmets on, and play on a swing-set in their fenced backyards with their siblings. Either that or they stay in their basements playing COD with their safety helmets still on.
-
So I work with these kids (6-10 years old) every other Tuesday, and to be honest, they are wimps. You know why? Because all these parents who fail at disciplining their kids. Nowadays it's "timeouts" and "ositive reinforcement" junk. Seriously, just watch supernanny, she never gives the kids spankings because that would be some kind of "child abuse." I remember whenever I did something bad, my parents immediately spanked me right on the butt. That's how discipline should be. Spankings have made me learn very well that what I did was wrong. And once I got spanked for doing something wrong, I never did that thing again because I didn't want to be spanked. Now about these kids I work with, they are a bunch of cry-babies. You know why? Because this is a generation of "timeouts." And the kids I work with are rude, disobedient and very rebellious. The little trolls are always untying my shoes, throwing crayons at me, stealing the snack food before it's snack time, flicking water at me when I take them to the bathroom. It's just ridiculous.
-
Bottom line: How and why did the world get so dangerous? And why are kids not being properly disciplined?
P.S. Even my little cousin (7 years old) screams his head off at the dentist's office because he's terrified of the tools. And he hardly ever brushes his teeth, so it's his own fault that he has to go to the dentist. I asked my parents if I was ever terrified of the dentist at that age, and they said that I wasn't... hmm... I wonder why...
- 64 Replies
Wow. You certainly are sergeant sarcasm today aren't you?
I had to serve for years to get this position.
Actually not.
Actually yes. The general idea of the timespan of a generation is about 30 years.
Or look at it like this. When you're 56, and these kids are 48, are people going to look at you and think that you belonged to two generations?
So how exactly were you disciplined?
Mostly by privileges being taken away.
Yeah. That too.
How haven't you realized that Alt isn't being serious yet...
Also, there should be no height limit on roller coaster
Yea, not like it's for safety reasons or anything logical like that.
Actually yes. The general idea of the timespan of a generation is about 30 years.
What if I was born at the 29th year of that generation's timespan? Then bam. We're in different generations.
Mostly by privileges being taken away.
That never works for the kids that I work with.
-
Ah... I realize what Alt was getting at now with what annoys me. But seriously. My parents can't discipline me to like popcorn.
Yea, not like it's for safety reasons or anything logical like that.
They can make safer seats for kids...
What if I was born at the 29th year of that generation's timespan? Then bam. We're in different generations.
Not 30 years starting with a set date. If it was like this, two brothers, born only a year apart, could be called different generations.
The definition of generation is sketchy, but if somebody is close enough to your age to be your brother, then he's probably part of your generation.
That never works for the kids that I work with
You just need to find out what they actually care about.
They can make safer seats for kids
If they want to waste time and money developing seating for the relatively small amount of children who are going to be willing to ride them, then yes, they can. Also, children probably can't withstand as much g-force as older people, so they'll have to recalculate all the drops and whatnot and make them less extreme.
I remember the days when family, friends and neighbors used to stop by my house uninvited, and we'd let them in and we'd have a great time and stay up and party all night. Nowadays it's like: *Doorbell rings* "OMG! PANIC! HIDE UNDER THE COUCH AND BEHIND THE KITCHEN COUNTER! GET THE PHONE READY TO CALL 911! *Dad goes to look through the peep-hole and says:* "Oh, it's just the mailman with a package for us."
This never happens to me. Why? I'll tell you why. Bears. That's right, I said bears. What about bears? Oh, nothing, except for how they maul people in the face. What does this have to do with people walking up to my door? Nothing, it has nothing to do with people walking up to my door.
Does that happen to anyone else?
Does this happen to you?
Nowadays... Kids put safety helmets on, and play on a swing-set in their fenced backyards with their siblings. Either that or they stay in their basements playing COD with their safety helmets still on.
Two questions. How do you know that kids wear helmets while swinging on swing sets in their back yard, and how do you know kids are in the basement playing CoD with their helmets on? If you're spying on them, can I have your address because I think I need to call the cops on you...
So I work with these kids (6-10 years old) every other Tuesday, and to be honest, they are wimps. You know why? Because all these parents who fail at disciplining their kids.
You really shouldn't be working with children. Your philosophy on how to raise children is ****ed up, and you're definitely going unfit to be a father at this moment in your life.
Allow me to explain...
Nowadays it's "timeouts" and "ositive reinforcement" junk. Seriously, just watch supernanny, she never gives the kids spankings because that would be some kind of "child abuse.
The difference between positive reinforcement and spankings is that one uses rewards to discipline children, whereas the other uses fear and pain. I apologize if I consider you to be a sick individual for supporting a method that uses fear and pain to raise children, it's just that using fear and pain to control another human being, especially a child, is ****ing sick and disgusting.
I remember whenever I did something bad, my parents immediately spanked me right on the butt. That's how discipline should be.
Already, we can see the effects spanking has had on you. One of the problems with spankings is that children who are spanked often grow up to spank their own children. The reason they see no problem with spanking their children is because that's how they were raised. It doesn't even occur to them that using pain against a child is wrong. In regards with raising a son whom knows how to handle children, your parents have failed.
Spankings have made me learn very well that what I did was wrong. And once I got spanked for doing something wrong, I never did that thing again because I didn't want to be spanked.
It took pain and fear to make you behave? Has it occurred to you that pain and fear aren't the only methods of sending a message?
Because this is a generation of "timeouts." And the kids I work with are rude, disobedient and very rebellious. The little trolls are always untying my shoes, throwing crayons at me, stealing the snack food before it's snack time, flicking water at me when I take them to the bathroom. It's just ridiculous.
Be honest with me, are these children angry when they do these things? It seems to me that they just want to have fun, and the fact they resort to such methods shows that their parents probably aren't involved enough with their children's lives, or that the parents are not paying enough attention to their children.
P.S. Even my little cousin (7 years old) screams his head off at the dentist's office because he's terrified of the tools. And he hardly ever brushes his teeth, so it's his own fault that he has to go to the dentist. I asked my parents if I was ever terrified of the dentist at that age, and they said that I wasn't... hmm... I wonder why...
That's just heartless.
Bottom line: How and why did the world get so dangerous? And why are kids not being properly disciplined?
I believe the world today is quite safe, but you never really talked about how the world was dangerous, you merely gave us these false examples as to how people react to their surroundings in fear.
As for why kids aren't being spanked, let me go into detail as to why spanking is wrong.
Young children don't do wrong intentionally, they are merely reacting without thinking. When a kid misbehaves by untying your shoes or hiding your keys, why should you spank your child for trying to have fun? You teach him that he shouldn't hide your keys or untie your shoes, but he doesn't learn how to have fun without getting in trouble, or why the things he did was wrong in the first place. Sometimes children find other means of having fun, and after not being hit by their parents, they realize that the fun they're having is proper. Sometimes this isn't the case.
If you're lucky, your child will stop misbehaving as a way to avoid pain, they will avoid doing wrong out of fear. But this isn't always the case. Often, when you spank a child, he merely learns to do wrong in the other room where you can't see him. Either way, he acts out of fear.
A child should behave because they care about doing good, and the way in which you teach them not only what is good, but why an action is good, is to be patient with him and to use a form of punishment that doesn't make them into a weaker human being.
Let's create a scenario and let's see if you can spot the problem with spanking.
-A child steals another kid's sandwich at school. When he comes home with a note from the teacher, his father spanks him. Do you see the problem? No? Let me change it slightly.
-A child hits another kid at school. When he comes home with a note from his teacher, his father father spanks him. Now do you see the problem? If not, let me explain.
What kind of message do you send a child when you spank them? That stealing and hitting others is wrong, yet it's okay to hit someone when they do something you don't like? How can you teach a child that it's wrong to settle disputes by fighting when you're hitting the kid himself! What you're doing when you spank your child is teaching them that violence is an acceptable way to solve their problems. Again, we see this with you as a result of you being spanked.
Spanking children make them fear you. If you spank your children, they will be less likely to open up to you. They will probably love you, trust you, but they'll have a harder time going to you to discuss their problems. Sometimes, they'll have a harder time opening up to other people as well. This is incredibly strenuous on relations, both between parents and couples, both early in life and later in life.
Here's an article that sums up all the negative effects of spanking.
How ironic that you speak of the world being such a dangerous place, yet you suggest parents discipline their children through spankings. Of course, there's more to behavior issues than just spankings, and although it's possible for a child to misbehave without ever have been spanked, let me assure you that spanking does not solve the issue.
Okay, my initial response is incredibly long, and even though I discourage double posts, I believe this one is justified. I also decided to actually read the rest of the thread and I want to reply to some of these things, so there's that as well.
For the rest of the first paragraph and the second paragraph: Why are teenagers rebellious and why do they go nuts when they are disciplined? Because they weren't disciplined properly as a child. And that is what is still going on in today's world. The kids I work with are incredibly spoiled and rebellious.
There are many different reasons why teenagers are misbehaved, and why they act out. Sometimes children are spoiled rotten, and when they grow up, they don't know how to handle reality. Sometimes children grow up in broken homes where their parents don't teach them how to properly behave. Sometimes children are abused. There are a number of reasons why children rebel.
As for being rebellious, teenagers rebel for many different reasons, and I think teenagers are sometimes justified in their rebellion. It really depends on what and why.
Aha! I've seen this happen directly with the kids I work with. One kid (10 years old) has two little brothers (7 and 5 years old). The oldest was playing me at air-hockey. Then he told his two little brothers to punch me, so that he could gain an advantage in the game. And I was in total shock when the siblings actually obeyed the whims of their older brother.
All this proves is that younger siblings often mirror their older siblings. Do you know how the oldest sibling is treated at home? Do you know for sure that he isn't spanked when he's home? Are you certain that his parents pay attention to him at home? Do you honestly know what his life is like outside the moments where you must watch him?
Because they weren't properly disciplined as kids...
One of the greatest tragedies in life is discovering that your parents, and adults in general, are hypocrites. Teenagers often don't listen to their parents because after being told to avoid alcohol and cigarettes all their life, they realize that their parents do these things all the time. Many teenagers who don't listen to their parents don't have a strong relationship with their parents, whether it because their parents were abusive or because their parents didn't pay enough attention to them.
Not exactly. I'm more of a professional baby-sitter.
I'm curious as to how you discipline children, and whether you're able to make behave themselves. Of course, this is a loaded statement. If you spank the children, then I'm shocked you haven't had the cops called on you. If you fail at making the children behave, then I wouldn't necisarily consider you to be a professional babysitter. If you are able to make children behave without threats and violence, then you're merely supporting the fact that pain and fear doesn't have to be used against children to make them behave.
Of course, if you can't make them behave, it might not be your inability to control them. Their parents may have screwed them up to the point where it's nearly impossible for you to make them behave.
[quote]you ain't gonna get a cookie every time you meet a project deadline in the workplace.[/quote]
Heh heh. True dat.
People who aren't rewarded at work often become stressed out. You'll be surprised how much better workers feel when you tell them they're doing a good job for what they've done. Recognition, alone, is a powerful tool in helping people.
Of course, Avorne's statement about teenagers expecting a reward every time they do something good is true. When you reward a child every time they do something good, they come to expect a reward, which means it will be harder for them to adapt to situations where they aren't constantly being appreciated. Of course, lack of appreciation in the work place is still an issue, regardless as to how the workers were raised.
Alright. Let's assume a child hits their sibling after you immediately and directly tell them not to. What should the child's punishment be?
If a child does something like this, then the parent has failed in the first place. Of course, parents do make mistakes and are bound to fail on occasion and if one of their children does these things, they need to fix the problem. So let's answer your question, how do we fix the problem?
First, let's observe the hypocrisy of hitting said child. What kind of message do you send your child when you hit them for hitting another child? I can tell you one thing, you sure as hell are not teaching them that hitting is wrong!
If a child bites or hits their sibling, you ask them why they did what they did. You explain to them alternative ways in which they can solve a dispute. If you feel like taking something away, then do so.
One father made a vlog about spankings, and he explained that if his daughter disobeyed him, such as refusing to brush her teeth, then he would explain to her that he would still tuck her in at night, but he wouldn't read her a story, or sit down and watch her favorite cartoon with her.
Of course, if a child isn't attached enough to their parent to care, then maybe the parent will have to take away their TV privileges. Honestly, I feel parents should try to avoid taking something other than their affection away, mainly because it often doesn't work. Many children are more effected by their parent's disappointment, and when a parent takes something of theirs away, they feel a little less guilty about what they did.
You just need to find out what they actually care about.
That never works for the kids that I work with.
Afterbuner actually brings up a good point.
Taking something away from a child doesn't always work. It isn't nearly as bad as spanking them, but it works off of fear. By taking away something from a child, they fear losing that something. Again, this really just teaches children that if they're going to do something wrong, they need only not get caught. Of course, it isn't anything like spankings in the sense that a child will fear getting hit more than they'll fear losing their favorite toy.
If your able to create a strong bond between you and your child, I'm certain that taking away affection will work most of the time. You teach a child by giving them approval. Instead of making a child fearful when they do something wrong, you make them feel happy when they do something good. You don't always have to reward them with a toy when they do something good, and after a certain point, you don't always have to show them praise after every single good deed they make. However, it's important to always remind them how proud you are of them no matter whether they're 5 years old or hitting the fun ol' age of 18.
You really shouldn't be working with children. Your philosophy on how to raise children is ****ed up, and you're definitely going unfit to be a father at this moment in your life.
The difference between positive reinforcement and spankings is that one uses rewards to discipline children, whereas the other uses fear and pain. I apologize if I consider you to be a sick individual for supporting a method that uses fear and pain to raise children, it's just that using fear and pain to control another human being, especially a child, is ****ing sick and disgusting.
It doesn't even occur to them that using pain against a child is wrong.
It took pain and fear to make you behave? Has it occurred to you that pain and fear aren't the only methods of sending a message?
Okie dokie... Why is pain not a fitting punishment? It teaches a child that what they did was wrong. Example: A child repeatedly hits his older sibling even after the child has been told not to hit people. How are you going to handle the situation? Put them on their timeout chair for 10 minutes? Take away a privilege? No. Because when that child grows up, he's going to picking on anyone he pleases and only expecting a mild punishment. If that child goes and picks on a complete stranger who is twice their size, is that stranger going to put the child in timeout? No. They will not be as gracious as parents and they will harm the child... Spanking demonstrates that there is a direct consequence for the wrong that the child has done. The child will realize that the rules are strongly enforced and he will no longer do wrong... I have been watching the Andy Griffith show on Netflix recently, and I'm reminded of an episode where Opie (the child) disobeys Andy (the father) deliberately. Then Andy says that he's going to take Opie out for a "whippin'" . Why don't we do that anymore? Because the world has gotten wimpy.
-
It seems to me that they just want to have fun,
Yes, they have loads of fun when they untie my shoes, throw crayons at me and other kids, pull on the basketball goal net, steal my hat and throw it in the trash can, and when they jump up and smack the paper-towel dispenser in the bathroom. Gee that sounds like a grand ol' time. Gotta love tearing up other people's property.
I believe the world today is quite safe
Because kids wear helmets to take a bath.
but you never really talked about how the world was dangerous,
Need I talk about how dangerous the world is? Okay, I think of two example's off the top of my head: 1) America is ranked 1st in school shootings. Don't believe me? Turn on the evening news. 2) More people are killed in New york on a busy _weekend_ than the amount of people killed in Tokyo in a year.
When a kid misbehaves by untying your shoes or hiding your keys, why should you spank your child for trying to have fun? You teach him that he shouldn't hide your keys or untie your shoes, but he doesn't learn how to have fun without getting in trouble, or why the things he did was wrong in the first place. Sometimes children find other means of having fun, and after not being hit by their parents, they realize that the fun they're having is proper.
So you're definition of "fun" is causing inconvenience for other people? Kids need to learn that fun can be had without the expense of other people's well-being.
If you're lucky, your child will stop misbehaving as a way to avoid pain, they will avoid doing wrong out of fear.
Wow. I'm sorry, but you just failed miserably. You see, any punishment can be considered controlling by fear. A child can be afraid of spanking, a child can be afraid of timeout, a child can be afraid of losing a privilege, a child can be afraid of being thrown in jail.
How can you teach a child that it's wrong to settle disputes by fighting when you're hitting the kid himself!
First, you clearly show the child that they do not like being hurt, so that makes them feel how someone else feels. Second, what if someone who has been raised off timeouts goes and confronts life only being afraid of timeouts? That person is in for a rough life.
Spanking children make them fear you. If you spank your children, they will be less likely to open up to you.
No way. Usually after the spankings, I am open, and I question my parents because I want to know why I got spanked, and what I can do to avoid the consequences next time. Parents can and should do much more guidance than just throwing them on the floor and beating them with a cat-o'-nine-tails.
-
About that website you linked to, I'll answer all those points tomorrow. As well as everyone else's posts in this thread.
Okie dokie... Why is pain not a fitting punishment?
Did you read the article he linked?
Yes, they have loads of fun when they untie my shoes, throw crayons at me and other kids, pull on the basketball goal net, steal my hat and throw it in the trash can, and when they jump up and smack the paper-towel dispenser in the bathroom. Gee that sounds like a grand ol' time. Gotta love tearing up other people's property.
Everybody's definition of fun doesn't have to match up to yours.
Also, you're kind of contradicting yourself now. All kids do is "wear their safety helmets and play COD", and what you did was "watergun fights, C and R, and tag". Then you describe the kids as
"they untie my shoes, throw crayons at me and other kids, pull on the basketball goal net, steal my hat and throw it in the trash can, and when they jump up and smack the paper-towel dispenser in the bathroom"
These two descriptions don't even slightly match up, not to mention that their actions seem less wimpy than your waterfights.
Because kids wear helmets to take a bath.
So now you're watching little children take baths too...?
Need I talk about how dangerous the world is? Okay, I think of two example's off the top of my head: 1) America is ranked 1st in school shootings. Don't believe me? Turn on the evening news. 2) More people are killed in New york on a busy _weekend_ than the amount of people killed in Tokyo in a year.
You said "world", then only gave examples of why america is worse than the world.
Wow. I'm sorry, but you just failed miserably. You see, any punishment can be considered controlling by fear. A child can be afraid of spanking, a child can be afraid of timeout, a child can be afraid of losing a privilege, a child can be afraid of being thrown in jail.
First, you clearly show the child that they do not like being hurt, so that makes them feel how someone else feels. Second, what if someone who has been raised off timeouts goes and confronts life only being afraid of timeouts? That person is in for a rough life.
You just failed. We don't hurt people who commited a crime, we send them to jail. A good analogy to jail would be time out, not spanking.
No way. Usually after the spankings, I am open, and I question my parents because I want to know why I got spanked, and what I can do to avoid the consequences next time. Parents can and should do much more guidance than just throwing them on the floor and beating them with a cat-o'-nine-tails.
I'm fairly certain by "open" he meant emotionally. Like talking to them about problems you're having in school and the such.
Going back to my analogy before. If somebody commits a crime rarely are they punished physically (put to death). Do you think criminals should just be given a good ol spanking and told to go on their way? Or given a timeout based on the severity of their acts?
Okie dokie... Why is pain not a fitting punishment? It teaches a child that what they did was wrong.
It does NOT teach a child why the thing they did was wrong. Of course, you could spank a child AND explain why they were in the wrong, but then you're teaching your child that violence is an acceptable solution when they're having problems.
Okie dokie... Why is pain not a fitting punishment? It teaches a child that what they did was wrong. Example: A child repeatedly hits his older sibling even after the child has been told not to hit people. How are you going to handle the situation? Put them on their timeout chair for 10 minutes? Take away a privilege? No. Because when that child grows up, he's going to picking on anyone he pleases and only expecting a mild punishment. If that child goes and picks on a complete stranger who is twice their size, is that stranger going to put the child in timeout? No. They will not be as gracious as parents and they will harm the child... Spanking demonstrates that there is a direct consequence for the wrong that the child has done. The child will realize that the rules are strongly enforced and he will no longer do wrong
Let me start off by saying that if your child is hitting other kids at school, then you more likely than not did something wrong as a parent. If a parent decides that they screwed up their child and they want to be better parents after their kids get into fights, then the parent should talk to their kid.
Again, how can you possibly believe that hitting a kid as punishment for hitting a kid works? If the kid doesn't get into any more fights, you can argue that the spanking worked, but I'm certain that the kid is merely avoiding fights so he doesn't find himself getting hurt, which is not okay. The kid will likely have a hard time speaking for himself later in life.
Of course, the kid might just learn that violence is acceptable to writing wrongs. If the kid feels wronged later in life, he'll be more likely to get into fights.
I have been watching the Andy Griffith show on Netflix recently, and I'm reminded of an episode where Opie (the child) disobeys Andy (the father) deliberately. Then Andy says that he's going to take Opie out for a "whippin'" .
It's a TV show.
Why don't we do that anymore? Because the world has gotten wimpy.
LOL no. It's because we're smarter and we understand that spankings don't work.
Yes, they have loads of fun when they untie my shoes, throw crayons at me and other kids, pull on the basketball goal net, steal my hat and throw it in the trash can, and when they jump up and smack the paper-towel dispenser in the bathroom. Gee that sounds like a grand ol' time. Gotta love tearing up other people's property.
You're believe these children should be spanked?! Obviously their parents aren't doing a good job raising them.
So you're definition of "fun" is causing inconvenience for other people? Kids need to learn that fun can be had without the expense of other people's well-being.
No, my definition of fun is whatever the current definition of fun is. If a child is having fun, you teach them that they can have fun without harming other people's stuff. You can't teach this to children by hitting them. You can teach them not to do it if you hit them, but they don't learn why it's wrong, they only learn that they'll get hurt if they do so. You don't create compassion, you create a being who is incapable of acting kindly on their own free will.
Because kids wear helmets to take a bath.
That is a load of ****. Children don't wear helmets when taking a bath. But I will admit that I've seen some parents who are over protective, but kids aren't necisarily becoming wimps. And they sure as hell aren't becoming wimps because they were never spanks. Wimps and children who are too ****ed up to solve disputes peacefully are the result of spankings. Rational human beings are not the result of spanking. Yes, there are some rational people who have been spanked, but spankings did not make any of these people who they are today.
Kids who behave because they're afraid of getting hurt ARE wimps. Kids who use violence are irrational, and are also often the result of being spanked. Depending on the kid, you'll generally end up with one or the other.
Wow. I'm sorry, but you just failed miserably. You see, any punishment can be considered controlling by fear. A child can be afraid of spanking, a child can be afraid of timeout, a child can be afraid of losing a privilege, a child can be afraid of being thrown in jail.
A child should be aware of the results of their action, but they shouldn't act out of fear, they should act our of decency!
First, you clearly show the child that they do not like being hurt, so that makes them feel how someone else feels.
Yeah, right. A child who has been spanked doesn't think, "oh geez, this is how the kid I hurt felt?" OF COURSE NOT! They're thinking "oh God, I'm going to get hurt if I'm caught doing that again." But let say this does work. Let's say that children do learn how it feels to be picked on. I'm sure occasionally a child does come to the right conclusion once in a while. Do you honestly believe spanking is the only way to send this message?!
If a child is hitting at school, you failed as a parent. If they're hitting at school, you didn't properly raise them to begin with. Hitting them because you failed as a parent is unfair, but if that does happen, and you want to fix things, you should talk to your child and learn how to be a better parent. You should teach your kid what it means to be a good person. I can't tell you exactly how, it depends on the kid, but often it's as simple as spending quality time with your kid and talking to him. Of course, if you're a parent who yells often, you'll probably be stupefied as to why your quality time isn't working, because yelling at kids only pushes children into behaving irrationally.
No way. Usually after the spankings, I am open, and I question my parents because I want to know why I got spanked, and what I can do to avoid the consequences next time. Parents can and should do much more guidance than just throwing them on the floor and beating them with a cat-o'-nine-tails.
I highly doubt it, but there's really no way I can prove otherwise.
Parents who have been spanked themselves often spank their own children. It's disgusting, there is absolutely no excuse what-so-ever for a 160 pound man to hit a 60 pound child. Let's suppose that spankings do not cause any other harmful side effects, it's still absolutely foolish to believe that using pain is an appropriate reaction. It's foolish to believe spanking is the only way to discipline a child.
People who aren't rewarded at work often become stressed out. You'll be surprised how much better workers feel when you tell them they're doing a good job for what they've done. Recognition, alone, is a powerful tool in helping people.
Ah, I didn't mean to say that workers shouldn't be awarded at all or have their hard work recognized, rather that any such recognition or awarding wouldn't be presented immediately after they completed any work-related task - rather it would more likely be after a string of consistent hard work.
The problem with disciplining children is the same as teaching children - different methods effect different children.
Spanking one child might make them see their mistake and correct it.
Spanking another might make them rebel further, lead to more spankings, lead to more misbehaving. Sometimes a calm, positive outlook on disciple is required in order to get through to the child.
My father was physical with discipline, my mother was strong and implemented discipline without raising her hand. Throughout the "troublesome teenage years", i had a lot more respect for my mother, and i was much more well behaved for her.
It's not that parent's have turned wimpy when disciplining their children, it's that there is more understanding of a child's emotional needs and metal state.
It's not that the world is wimpy, it's just that the western world is wimpy. We live in the western world where "TOLERANCE IS KING. We are taught to tolerate all races, religion & sexual persuasions(amongst other things) so why not bad behaviour from children?
The kids are young, they didn't mean it, they are not aware of their actions, maybe they come from challenging home backgrounds, maybe we are misinterpreting the situation & actions, ect, ect,ect.
I have a 5 year old daughter & I never spank her nor need to yell at her. She respects me totally & acts accordingly because I respect her & treat her as a human. She acts respectfully & politely amongst others because she mimics my behaviour. Her mum disrespects my daughter, threatens her, smacks hers & she acts totally differently. IMHO as a parent, if the kid plays up, don't smack the kid smack the parent. The kid's are learning their behaviour off the parent. Anyways here in Australia, awards, trophies & ribbons are handed out like candy to children for the most inane reasons. When each child thinks they are "THE BEST" & nearly everthing is tolerated then "rubbish" children & adults are created.
These are quotes from the website NoNameC68 linked to.
It teaches your child that violence is an acceptable way to express anger and deal with conflict. This contradicts the rest of how you are trying to raise your child.
Spanking lets the child feel how the person they wronged against, feels. The child will learn that they don't want others to feel how they do, and thus spanking is effective discipline.
It is painful. Deliberately instilling pain on your child is cruel (even if you believe it's âfor their own goodâ). The slogan, âNo pain, no gainâ does not apply to child rearing.
Making your child bleed or giving them severe bruises is cruel. Spanking is pain that only lasts for less than a minute. If the child can't learn to suck up a little pain, then you're going to have a Marty McFly Jr. on your hands.
It's harmful emotionally for you. Have you ever felt wonderful after hitting a child? Spanking often leads to remorse, guilt, and doubts about the quality of your own parenting skills. Avoid the agony-resist the urge to smack. It's a very unpleasant sensation to feel like a bully.
It's called 'tough love.' You must do what is necessary to discipline the child. You need to show them that life can't always be lollipops, rainbows and unicorns.
It's harmful emotionally for the child. Spanking is traumatic, makes a child feel as though there's something wrong with her (instead of something wrong with her behavior), creates resentment, and can lead to body image and self image problems
You have to break eggs to make an omelet. Even though it is emotionally hard for the child, spanking still sends a clear message that a certain behavior won't be tolerated. With parental guidance, the parents can help the child pick themselves back up, dust themselves off, and move on.
Spanking tells a child she is powerless. A powerless person will act out, leading to more problems.
Wrong. A child has power. Sometimes they use that power to misbehave, thus spanking should be the consequence. And the child should not have very much power, because if you obey their every whim, you will end up raising a spoiled brat.
Spanking is disrespectful to the child, and it doesn't help teach respectful values or standards.
If you respect your child too much, the will be a spoiled brat. But that doesn't mean that you must throw the child in a torture chamber and throw down cooked rats for them to eat... There is a balance between respect and disrespect when it comes to discipline, that balance is spanking.
It breaks trust and invades a child's sense of security.
How does it break trust? I could always trust my parents, that if I misbehaved, I'd get spanked. ... Okay, the kids have to feel secure. Lets put safety helmets on them, wrap them in bubble wrap, don't forget the knee pads, elbow pads, and mouth guard. Once the child is nice and secure, they can go play outside.
It halts effective communication.
Spanking does exactly the opposite. It sends a clear and concise message to the child, that their behavior was wrong.
Where do you go from there? Once you resort to physical discipline, the only steps âupâ are more, or stronger physical discipline. Don't start down that path.
You talk with the child. Let them know where they went wrong. Do what you can to help them avoid misbehaving next time. You don't have to step up the pain.
It doesn't work! In the very, very short term, you may stop the misbehavior. The backlash is not worth the very, very short term.
It actually does work, I am living proof of that. I do everything my parents ask without question because even though I'm too old to be spanked, I have learned that there are other consequences in the world for misbehavior. If you hit one of your siblings, they will hit you back. And if you don't step in and start disciplining, your house will be total chaos.
-
Sometimes children are spoiled rotten, and when they grow up, they don't know how to handle reality.
Because they weren't spanked!
Do you honestly know what his life is like outside the moments where you must watch him?
Yup. I asked him today (That's why I didn't respond earlier this morning cause I wuz working). And he and his four siblings only ever get timeouts.
One of the greatest tragedies in life is discovering that your parents, and adults in general, are hypocrites.
Perhaps because the parents know what harm can become of smoking and drinking, and they don't want this harm to come to their kids. Also, the kids should see what harm it's doing to their parents, and that should make the teenager not want to be like their parents. In that case, it is good to be rebellious. If a teenager is rebellious against the laws of society, that's not good.
I'm curious as to how you discipline children
I can hardly do anything to discipline them because I'm not sure what their parents will think of me. I'm not sure it's wise if I were to spank someone else's child. That's why it is a parent's job.
Their parents may have screwed them up to the point where it's nearly impossible for you to make them behave.
Yup. Because they put their children in the most ineffective discipline method in history, timeouts.
People who aren't rewarded at work often become stressed out. You'll be surprised how much better workers feel when you tell them they're doing a good job for what they've done. Recognition, alone, is a powerful tool in helping people.
That's why they get what is known as a "aycheck."
First, let's observe the hypocrisy of hitting said child. What kind of message do you send your child when you hit them for hitting another child? I can tell you one thing, you sure as hell are not teaching them that hitting is wrong!
You send a message related to the golden rule: Do unto others as you would want them to do unto you... So if you do to the child what they did to someone else, it makes the child not want to harm anyone else because they know how it feels.
If a child bites or hits their sibling, you ask them why they did what they did. You explain to them alternative ways in which they can solve a dispute.
Watch the supernanny show... I don't think it's even on TV anymore, but have you seen it? Kids just scream "NO" whenever they are told to do something. Talking never works. Actions do.
If you feel like taking something away, then do so.
Taking something away is rarely successful. The child will just whine and cry until they get their privileges back. Or they will keep disobeying and you will run out of privileges to take away.
One father made a vlog about spankings, and he explained that if his daughter disobeyed him, such as refusing to brush her teeth, then he would explain to her that he would still tuck her in at night, but he wouldn't read her a story, or sit down and watch her favorite cartoon with her.
And yet she still got her way. She still didn't brush her teeth. Instead, if she starts hitting other people and only her things get taken away, she is still going to hit people. Tell me, is that an effective discipline method?
Taking something away from a child doesn't always work. It isn't nearly as bad as spanking them, but it works off of fear. By taking away something from a child, they fear losing that something. Again, this really just teaches children that if they're going to do something wrong, they need only not get caught. Of course, it isn't anything like spankings in the sense that a child will fear getting hit more than they'll fear losing their favorite toy.
I thought you said it was bad to control children with fear?
If your able to create a strong bond between you and your child, I'm certain that taking away affection will work most of the time.
If you cut a rope, is that going to make it stronger?
-
Alrighty, I gotta go eat some lunch. I'll be back to answer everything else in a few minutes.
This whole thread sounds like "In the old days the world was allright" to me, honestly. Of course things have changed, but it's just the aftermaths of our society's development.
Imo, the world has grown too big too fast and we simply haven't learnt how to cope with it yet.
You guys should read Emile, or On Education by Jean-Jacques Rousseau ^^
Everybody's definition of fun doesn't have to match up to yours.
Umm... NoNameC68 said that 'maybe the kids are just trying to have fun.' And I gave a few examples of what my kids do that need punishment. Thus, I was saying that it's not fun to tear up other people's property and that's why the kids need disciplining.
These two descriptions don't even slightly match up,
BAM! That's my point. The kids who get timeouts always misbehave more. As the kids who get spanked actually learn that since they shouldn't hurt others, they can have legit fun.
not to mention that their actions seem less wimpy than your waterfights.
Yup they're actions are signs that they might grow up to be property vandals. Then they'll get thrown in jail. So yes, they are much less wimpy...
So now you're watching little children take baths too...?
Ha. No. I was just pointing out that parents these days are over-protective of their kids. Now I'm not saying that children should be cut off the leash and be allowed to run into the middle of a busy street. But I remember the days when me and my friends went to the park by ourselves with no adult supervision. And we had to cross a few streets along the way, but we did it the safe way because we knew that there would be consequences if we ran out without looking both ways.
You said "world", then only gave examples of why america is worse than the world.
Oh I'm sorry... I just assumed that everyone knew that there was conflict going on in Israel, Iran and Afganistan and all those countries. Apparently I was wrong when I assumed you knew that there was already war all over the world...
We don't hurt people who commited a crime, we send them to jail. A good analogy to jail would be time out, not spanking.
Jail doesn't hurt people? What about hurting them emotionally?
Going back to my analogy before. If somebody commits a crime rarely are they punished physically (put to death). Do you think criminals should just be given a good ol spanking and told to go on their way? Or given a timeout based on the severity of their acts?
I think one would learn more if they were physically hurt rather than thrown into jail so that they have plenty of time to plot revenge.
but then you're teaching your child that violence is an acceptable solution when they're having problems.
But you're teaching the child that there is a severe and direct consequence for their actions.
Let me start off by saying that if your child is hitting other kids at school, then you more likely than not did something wrong as a parent.
Yup. I probably put them in timeouts rather than spanked them.
If a parent decides that they screwed up their child and they want to be better parents after their kids get into fights, then the parent should talk to their kid.
Talking never works.
Again, how can you possibly believe that hitting a kid as punishment for hitting a kid works?
It worked on me.
but I'm certain that the kid is merely avoiding fights so he doesn't find himself getting hurt, which is not okay.
So kids should just go pick fights all the time?
Of course, the kid might just learn that violence is acceptable to writing wrongs. If the kid feels wronged later in life, he'll be more likely to get into fights.
Wrong. If they kid knows how it feels to be hurt, the kid won't want to cause that hurt to other people. And once the child stops hurting others, you can stop spanking them.
It's a TV show.
And it's a great example of how things were back in those days. I'm reminded of a story. Back when my dad was in elementary school (in the early '70s), he had a particular teacher that he has ever forgotten. Because anytime that anyone in the (writing) class was not properly holding their pencil, the teacher would smack her ruler on the student's knuckles so hard that it broke the ruler. The teacher broke two to three rulers every day. That is how discipline should be, because now my dad has excellent penmanship. And back then, the teacher wasn't even fired, because that's just how things were back then.
It's because we're smarter and we understand that spankings don't work.
Spankings do work.
Obviously their parents aren't doing a good job raising them.
POW! Their parents aren't doing a good job because they're putting their kids in freaking timeouts. Timeouts are a failure
If a child is having fun, you teach them that they can have fun without harming other people's stuff. You can't teach this to children by hitting them.
Yes you can. You can show them how hitting makes other people feel. When they know how bad it feels, they will cease to do it to other people.
You can teach them not to do it if you hit them, but they don't learn why it's wrong,
Well duh. It takes much dialogue after the spanking to straighten out the child further.
You don't create compassion, you create a being who is incapable of acting kindly on their own free will.
No. They will act on free will. They will know how it feels to be hurt and they will not want to make other people feel that way.
Kids who behave because they're afraid of getting hurt ARE wimps.
But the reason the get spanked is because they do wrong. So when a child behaves, they are not doing it because they are wimpy and afraid of getting spanked. They behave because they know it's the right thing to do.
A child should be aware of the results of their action, but they shouldn't act out of fear
All punishment can be considered controlling someone by fear. Including timeouts and losing privileges. So the "they behave out of fear" argument applies to all punishment. So since it applies to all punishment, you're saying children shouldn't be punished?
Do you honestly believe spanking is the only way to send this message?!
It is a large part of sending a message. But talking to the child afterwards to explain why there were consequences is also necessary.
If a child is hitting at school, you failed as a parent. If they're hitting at school, you didn't properly raise them to begin with.
Yup. You improperly raised them by putting them in timeouts instead of spanking them.
Hitting them because you failed as a parent is unfair,
No. Spanking helps you be a better parent. I know you're now thinking "OMG HE'S A CHILD ABUSER." Well you're wrong again. Spanking is the most effective way of disciplining a child. If you don't discipline them properly, that is when you will fail as a parent.
you should talk to your child and learn how to be a better parent.
And they will say: "Okay, you can be a better parent if, you let me eat 10 cookies instead of eating dinner, if you let me stay up as long as I want, and if you buy me a new bicycle."
but often it's as simple as spending quality time with your kid and talking to him.
But merely talking with them is not effective disciplining. If someone commits murder, how about we just talk about things over some coffee and straighten things out 'eh?
Of course, if you're a parent who yells often, you'll probably be stupefied as to why your quality time isn't working, because yelling at kids only pushes children into behaving irrationally.
I agree. Shouting at someone only elevates the issue.
It's disgusting, there is absolutely no excuse what-so-ever for a 160 pound man to hit a 60 pound child. Let's suppose that spankings do not cause any other harmful side effects, it's still absolutely foolish to believe that using pain is an appropriate reaction. It's foolish to believe spanking is the only way to discipline a child.
And thus, we have a generation of rebellious rebels. For example, the kids I worked with today did the exact opposite of everything I told them. I told one kid to keep jumping on the couch, and guess what, he stopped.
-
The kids are young, they didn't mean it, they are not aware of their actions,
And we need to make them aware of their actions by spanking them. If you simply blow off their actions with that excuse, they will live a life believing that they can do anything they please.
I have a 5 year old daughter & I never spank her nor need to yell at her. She respects me totally & acts accordingly because I respect her & treat her as a human. She acts respectfully & politely amongst others because she mimics my behaviour. Her mum disrespects my daughter, threatens her, smacks hers & she acts totally differently.
Sounds to me like the 'mum' is being more abusive rather than disciplinary.
-
I don't spank my child , but I only have one child, so i can take the extra time to do things best practice.
I could see how more children to control would require different actions.
I did hit my child once with an open hand 3 years ago( she was 2'ish) when she poked me in the eye while I was sleeping & it hella hurt.
I was sleeping on the lounge(cat nap) felt a sharp pain in my eye & say her standing there smiling & giggling with her index finger pointed at me, I didn't get off the lounge or move my torso I just went "whack" ( I have a long reach), & said "don't do that, you'll make daddy go blind". She never did it again.
Discipline is different if you have one child & different if you are Octomum (put them on ritalin).
Most important is consistency.
No point in whacking kids sometimes when you are in a bad mood & letting them run riot at other times.
You must be logged in to post a reply!