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KnightDeclan
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KnightDeclan
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http://fisheaters.com/traditionalcatholicism.html

This has basically everything you need to know about the true religion.

http://www.traditionalcatholicpriest.com/2013/02/27/traditional-popes-vs-new-popes/

And this is exactly what i was talking about the popes.

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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I would like to try and give another perspective on the use of gut feelings as any sort of proof.

I feel that God doesn't exist and my feeling that God doesn't exist is more real than yours. I know this because I feel it's true.

By the rational that gut feels are proof that statement disproves God.

If you can see the flaw here then you are seeing the flaw in your own argument.

OperationNilo
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OperationNilo
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If you think I'll answer the arguments of multiple users simultaneously, then you are very very wrong ;:P I'm kinda happy how I'm living my religion, so if you don't want to convert to it, okay. I'm not gonna force you, much less over the nets.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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If you think I'll answer the arguments of multiple users simultaneously, then you are very very wrong ;:P


Why are you taking such a dismissive dodgy attitude? If you feel you can't reply to everyone just pull key points to reply to.

I'm kinda happy how I'm living my religion, so if you don't want to convert to it, okay. I'm not gonna force you, much less over the nets.


That was totally irrelevant to the points being made.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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so if you don't want to convert to it, okay.

I'd be happy to convert, if there was evidence beyond personal experience, fallacies, and blind acceptance.

I've also felt God

If your God is giving specific people true feelings of His presence, He's directly playing favorites for who goes to hell and who doesn't. If He's loving and He's fine with letting you personally know that He's there so strongly that you can't put the feeling into words, why wouldn't He grant that feeling to everyone? Better yet, why wouldn't He announce Himself to the world directly into everyone's mind so it can effortlessly be understood? If feelings were enough, there wouldn't be 40000 denominations of Christianity alone with hundreds of differing translations of holy texts and millions (maybe billions) of differing interpretations of said texts.

Well, the point of scripture is trying to find out what each part means and how it can be applied to real life (that's what I try to do ;:P).

Alright, what was the true meaning and real-life application behind God maliciously killing a baby [2 Samuel 12:15-19] in contradiction to Ezekiel 18:20? What about Leviticus 25:44-46 in which God tells His people who they may enslave permanently?
Wyrzen
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Wyrzen
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Alright, what was the true meaning and real-life application behind God maliciously killing a baby [2 Samuel 12:15-19] in contradiction to Ezekiel 18:20? What about Leviticus 25:44-46 in which God tells His people who they may enslave permanently?


Well if you look at the back story, King David had just committed both adultery, and calculated murder, so the death of his child with his fellow adulterer was a trial and a punishment for David. Now, the baby being struck and then dying isn't actually as bad as it seems, because the baby only had to go through a few days of suffering before returning to live with Him; the rest of us get, on average, like eighty years of it. So while the baby did suffer, as we all ultimately do, the baby actually is doing wonderfully with Him up there. The death of the child was more a punishment for David than a malicious act.

Now in regards to Ezekiel 18:20, the baby was not the one being punished; David was. Being struck with sickness was not the Lord saying, "You sinned and I'm going to take it out on your baby" it was more, "You sinned so I am going to take away something you love dearly", and then the child went back to his/her Father was was spared the pain and suffering of this life.

I don't have the Leviticus scripture down as well. I do know, however, that the Lord gives and recedes commandments as necessary. Like there have been times when He has said, "Take ye several wives" and times where He's said, "Take ye only one wife".

If I had to venture a guess it would have to do with Him giving the Israelites that land, or that maybe the gentile nations were blatantly being wicked and idolatrous, or whatnot. I mean, it gets pretty intense when Joshua leads the Israelite men to attack the gentile nations; there's even one where they trick and circumcise the grown men then come back and slaughter them all and put their heads on pikes. Why?

I dunno.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Now in regards to Ezekiel 18:20, the baby was not the one being punished; David was. Being struck with sickness was not the Lord saying, "You sinned and I'm going to take it out on your baby" it was more, "You sinned so I am going to take away something you love dearly", and then the child went back to his/her Father was was spared the pain and suffering of this life.

I don't see the difference between the first and second quotes. Time for the real-life application Mafia analogy: "You didn't do what we wanted, so we'll take something you care about." What makes this a good thing?

or that maybe the gentile nations were blatantly being wicked and idolatrous, or whatnot.

In what way is unending slavery in which a person may beat another within an inch of their life (as long as they don't die for a few days) considered 'good' under any circumstances? Do you personally find "maybe every member of every nation surrounding that area, including unborn/newborn babies, were evil" a justification for potentially lifelong abuse?
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
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Ezekiel 18:20

Perhaps I should've went back a few lines to 18:17 where it basically says that as long as the kid doesn't do the bad things their daddy did, "HE WILL SURELY LIVE"
Bladerunner679
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Bladerunner679
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Well if you look at the back story, King David had just committed both adultery, and calculated murder, so the death of his child with his fellow adulterer was a trial and a punishment for David. Now, the baby being struck and then dying isn't actually as bad as it seems, because the baby only had to go through a few days of suffering before returning to live with Him; the rest of us get, on average, like eighty years of it. So while the baby did suffer, as we all ultimately do, the baby actually is doing wonderfully with Him up there. The death of the child was more a punishment for David than a malicious act.


sorry to tell you, but it's still a horrible thing. that is essentially the same as a guy killing a bunch of people with an ice pick, and claiming that their death was really a punishment for their families. if you think about it, he is cutting their mundane lives short, granting them salvation. still doesn't change the fact that they were maliciously killed, or that the people being killed didn't have a say.

-Blade
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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If your God is giving specific people true feelings of His presence, He's directly playing favorites for who goes to hell and who doesn't. If He's loving and He's fine with letting you personally know that He's there so strongly that you can't put the feeling into words, why wouldn't He grant that feeling to everyone? Better yet, why wouldn't He announce Himself to the world directly into everyone's mind so it can effortlessly be understood? If feelings were enough, there wouldn't be 40000 denominations of Christianity alone with hundreds of differing translations of holy texts and millions (maybe billions) of differing interpretations of said texts.


Ever notice how piss poor this all powerful being is with communication?

We have vague indescribable feelings, that only some people get. That could be easily attributed to any number of things. We also have a book that was first provided to human in a small isolated area of the world who lacked a written language at the time and used a now dead dialect. This word of God is then handed down word of mouth for thousands of years before the first written copy is every made. Still then it is translated and re-translated in a language and time that the general public is unable to read. Finally after further translating and editing we get the first compilation that the general public can read. Through all this the information itself is so vague that we end up with literally thousands of interpretations and no one seems to be able to fully agree as to what's literal and what's not.
SectoidMedic
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SectoidMedic
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Something to lighten the mood

Awesome religious music, enjoy.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
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Firstly *link fix.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07tlUSoJIhQ

Secondly...

http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/059/1/4/Bleeding_ear_boy_by_Obersten.jpg

HahiHa
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HahiHa
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You want awesome religious music, forget the Disney song and listen to Bach, or organ concertos

SSTG
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SSTG
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You want awesome religious music, forget the Disney song and listen to Bach, or organ concertos

Excellent advice! I love organ music!
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
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religious music? lol the only thing i can think of (that sounds good and right) is god help the outcasts from the hunchback of notre damme XD

that song actually points out how many people forget what religion was supposed to be about.

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