Forums → WEPR → The God Debates
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There have been so many interesting topics and conversations in these threads about God, but they end up just going in circles - mostly because those on opposite sides tend to talk past one another. So, to facilitate this excellent dialogue while giving a bit more guidance to the conversation, I (per request) will moderate some discussion. First, some rules:
- Because most of us are familiar with a western notion of God, our conversation will be limited to this kind of God, unless otherwise specified.
- We need to separate the philosophy from the religion. Whatever crimes or irrationality you think a particular group is guilty of doesn't matter here. We're only concerned with arguments.
- Keep to the conversation at hand, and please just ignore those that clearly haven't read the topic introduction.
Ideally, this topic will generate discussion in a particular area until whoever is moderating the discussion feels like the dialogue has run its course. At that point, a new topic will be introduced.
So, first topic:
Does humanity have an intrinsic worth in the absence of God?
So, assuming God does not exist and society recognizes this, would human life have some intrinsic worth? And would this affect arguments against, say, euthanasia, abortion, or suicide?
Perhaps we only have some worth because we think we do, but that's where it ends. Does this line of thought pose any problems? What, if any, advantages would a theist's view of humanity give us when discussing these problems?
- 104 Replies
Oh, various people since I've joined.
Just venting but this time at you so.
Sprinkle in the occasional smiley face and what not. It is a lot more harsh, if you would, than I intended it to be. Sorry if you were offended.
I don't see Christians becoming depressed in great multitudes and your psychological explanation do not apply to everyone.
Samy is right. In fact a person with a set of beliefs founded in religion is more likely to be happy. It's the atheists who tend to become depressed more due to their need to constantly justfify and explain things, they have no fail safe. A person who is logical (personal opinion: believing in god takes a certain amount of illogical thinking) is more likely to be depressed for they can rationalize their feelings and fears, but they cannot figure the cure.
Samy is right. In fact a person with a set of beliefs founded in religion is more likely to be happy. It's the atheists who tend to become depressed more due to their need to constantly justfify and explain things, they have no fail safe. A person who is logical (personal opinion: believing in god takes a certain amount of illogical thinking) is more likely to be depressed for they can rationalize their feelings and fears, but they cannot figure the cure.
True, but it is false happiness. It is as if you told a child there pet "ran away" when it really died. Happiness is far different than truth, and without the truth we can not get further.
A person who is logical (personal opinion: believing in god takes a certain amount of illogical thinking) is more likely to be depressed for they can rationalize their feelings and fears, but they cannot figure the cure.
I would much rather have to rationalize the way I live, than blindly accept the existence of a being that I've never seen or heard.
*Sigh*
Neither of you truly understands what Christianity is which makes it truly difficult to debate on a level field.
Until you've been submerged in the Christian culture and understand what God is I lay check out of the religion threads.
True, but it is false happiness. It is as if you told a child there pet "ran away" when it really died. Happiness is far different than truth, and without the truth we can not get further.
I would much rather have to rationalize the way I live, than blindly accept the existence of a being that I've never seen or heard.
I agree, however I've been on samy's side of the fence, and when someone is in the wrong I tend to tell them. However, the hope is only false to the non believers.
Have faith for it will guide you. Have truth for it will follow.
""May not lay
Wolf the post wasn't meant for you and numbers I know you were a Christian but I'm assuming it wasn't recently or at an age where you could fully grasp the concept.
Fair enough, however, I understand the idea now. I think everyone here knows my views on religion but that doesn't stop me from showing other people their ignorance.
Oh, various people since I've joined.
Just venting but this time at you so.
Sprinkle in the occasional smiley face and what not. It is a lot more harsh, if you would, than I intended it to be. Sorry if you were offended.
Thought that was directed at me, don't worry I wasn't offended. I think your seeing my post as being more critical of Christianity then it was.
Perhaps if you understand Christianity better your answers wouldn't be so ridiculous?
Okay then can I ask what you found so ridiculous about my post?
If you think my analogy of God and a Christian to that of a parent and child is off...
Clearly from your posts your attempting to understand something by looking from the outside, most likely through a pre-determined bias.
While I can't speak as what you would refer to as a "true" Christian, keep in mind I did grow up with a Catholic mother who did expose me to many different denominations of Christianity. So I would say I do have quite a bit of inside personal experience with the religion.
I don't see Christians becoming depressed in great multitudes and your psychological explanation do not apply to everyone.
As I said it's a give and take situation, So I wasn't saying this was the case.
Sorry if this post seemed abrupt but it's quite annoying to see fallacies posted about your religion and people who believe like you do.
I'm going to speak my views on the matter. You can try to refute those views or deal with it.
Wolf the post wasn't meant for you and numbers I know you were a Christian but I'm assuming it wasn't recently or at an age where you could fully grasp the concept.
Yes, I as at a young age, and yes, by the time I realized my folly I was still rather young. My parents were never very pushy about religion, they actually got me interested in science at a young age.
I went to church and Bible school by peer pressure. Me and my friends had religious chats at lunch. But I was a Christian, and why would your god discriminate age? I felt the same feelings other Christians felt. Now I can explain them.
Finally, people do not have to be in something to understand it. I can look at microbes and understand them without being one. True, I could understand them better if I was one, but by studying them I can learn enough.
Until you've been submerged in the Christian culture and understand what God is I lay check out of the religion threads.
Wait, are you saying just because we aren't Christian we can't argue about Christianity?
I think he's saying because we're not Christians we cannot develop a full understanding of his perspective.
This has gotten completely off topic. The only theistic considerations in this discussion should be from a traditional western perspective - this does not imply a Christian perspective. Keep to the discussion as presented in the OP, or we'll have to move on to a different topic.
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