Forums → WEPR → Mormonism
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I'm starting this topic to "continue" a conversation started in the Christians vs. Catholics thread. I will include some of the details from there, but the rest are up to anyone new to read up on. I will specifically post the contents of one post, more or less.
We did not baptize Adolf Hitler. That is a lie. After people baptized for Obama's mother, an official release was sent out saying that unless you specifically know the person who's name you are bringing in to do temple work for (not the names that they already have) or they are in your family, you cannot do temple work for them.
We are not barred from being around ex Mormons. We do not necessarily believe they are with Satan. We excommunicate people for their good. In our views, it gives them a second chance. They can rejoin the church later, and their sins will be gone, just as they were when they were first baptized. I know many ex Mormons, and I do not get in trouble for being with them.
South Park is in no way an authority on anything. The fact that you're trying to cite that is pathetic.
Yes, there was polygamy. But it was revoked in the 1890's (even if only for legal reasons). Joseph Smith did not try to burn down a newspaper place. He was taken to jail for no real reason. If he shot back, it was only because they were shooting at him.
The reason non members are not allowed in the temple is because of the sacred things that go on in there. If just anyone was allowed in, the spirit would be disrupted. I will expound on this if needs be.
I am personally ashamed of the acts of other Latter-Day Saints who have done temple work for people without permission from relatives of that person. It is wrong, and we know it.
Tithing... It was actually in Christ's day when it started. The only reason it affects our worthiness to enter the temple (not our standing in general). The Lord gave us everything we have, and all he asks is 10% of what we earn. I'd say that's a pretty small price for life, liberty, and happiness.
Also, we believe in Agency and Accountability. You can choose to do what you want, but you will have to accept the consequences.
I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. He is my savior and my redeemer. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas S. Monson is the living prophet today. I believe the Bible to be true as far as it is correctly translated. I know that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be forgiven for our sins and return to live with our Heavenly Father. I have seen the Atonement in action in my life. I know that God listens to all prayers to him. He answers them in his own way. I know that I can make it to the Celestial Kingdom if I but do my best to keep the commandments of God.
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I heard something interesting at church today. Everyone loves the values of Mormonism - until they find out they're from Mormonism. Kind of off-topic for the rest of my post, but I just thought I'd say it.
also @E1337 you still are confused about places of worship. We have meetinghouses (our churches) everywhere that anyone is allowed into, where we take the sacrament and worship among other things. That's the service every week. Temples on the other hand, are only open to recommend-holding members, which is most of them. We have temples all over the world too, but not as many as we have churches.
@MageGrayWolf you can enter and watch our services in the church. Nothing prohibits that.
What I'm getting at is that there is much confusion about the difference between a church and a temple. Churches are more common, and they do not have the Angel Moroni on the steeple (the main noticeable difference). You are welcome to enter any church building so long as you are not disruptive. We consider temples to be more holy.
Here's a YouTube Channel that can answer some questions:
mormonsmadesimple
More specifically, here's their video on Temples:
Mormon Temples - Made Simple
And a video on common myths:
Mormon Myths - Made Simple
I would actually encourage you to watch some of the other videos from this channel. I laughed at some of the pictures, but the overall message/information is accurate.
Sorry for the double post, but the videos also point to a website with other information (and other videos, perhaps, but I haven't looked that much).
mormonsmadesimple.com
MageGrayWolf you can enter and watch our services in the church. Nothing prohibits that.
Then I have to wonder why I was told I was unable to come by to observe service by the LDS missionaries. That in order to attend I would have to join the church.
MageGrayWolf: services WHERE? Services in the temple differ from services in the church.
services WHERE? Services in the temple differ from services in the church.
Not really sure. They were handing out pamphlets, giving the usual song and dance. I said sure I wouldn't mind learning more about your religion, maybe I will stop by sometime to see how it goes. They tried to sign me up, I turned them down again saying I just wanted to see things first hand and they got all huffy yet still trying to keep composure and said members only. Not in those exact words, don't remember exactly what they said.
@MageGrayWolf: hmmm... maybe they misunderstood what you said, or perhaps they weren't good missionaries. But you are allowed into our churches to watch our services there first hand. I'd invite you to go if you're interested. I believe there's a tool on lds.org that helps you find the nearest church or which one you are in the boundaries for. I'll try to find it and post the link here (I must be honest and say I haven't used the LDS website all that much, except for reference purposes).
Well, I guess that about wraps things up, if there haven't been any posts. If there's something I missed, please tell me and I will get to it ASAP.
Let me think about that one... (.1 second later) Gee, maybe it's because Gay Marriage and Polygamy are two entirely different concepts. We are not the only opponents of Gay Marriage. Catholicism started the campaign about Proposition 8. We contributed money.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed partially because of Sodomy, which is literally homosexuality. Our decision to stand against Gay Marriage has nothing to do with Plural Marriage. It has to do with the beliefs of almost every Christian denomination out there. Therefore, it's not ironic at all.
Also, the keyword is supported. No matter how plural marriage ended in our church, it ended, and that's final.
Every religion has its "scandals." For Catholicism it was the crusades and the recent pedo-priests. For us, it was the Mountain Meadows Massacre (which was the decision of two people who were acting independently), and Plural Marriage.
Sorry if this post was a little harsh. I do not mean any harshness. I'm just irritated at current circumstances outside this thread.
I believe there's a tool on lds.org that helps you find the nearest church or which one you are in the boundaries for. I'll try to find it and post the link here (I must be honest and say I haven't used the LDS website all that much, except for reference purposes).
Thank you, I'll look into it.
Gee, maybe it's because Gay Marriage and Polygamy are two entirely different concepts.
I agree and unlike homosexuality, polygamy actually is a choice.
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed partially because of Sodomy, which is literally homosexuality.
So one reason they were destroyed was for being how they were made? This is where I would start taking issue with the Abrahamic God even if he was real.
So one reason they were destroyed was for being how they were made? This is where I would start taking issue with the Abrahamic God even if he was real.
The point that its how you're made is debatable, but it is still a valid point. I think it was the way in which they chose to express their homosexuality, rather than the homosexuality itself. The more modern meaning of Sodomy that you get when googling "define:sodomy" might help explain.
I do see where you're coming from, though.
I think I found the tool. Here's the link: Find Places of Worship - LDS Map. If that doesn't work, from the home page of lds.org, go into tools and click "Maps." It looks like they simplified the layout of their website recently, which is always a good thing as it makes things easier to find.
Cheers!
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed partially because of Sodomy, which is literally homosexuality.
That is not entirely true. I am seeing that most definitions of sodomy are "unnatural sex," regardless of it being heterosexual or homosexual. Sodomy is more of an umbrella term, it can even cover zoophilia. The problem is determining what is ACTUALLY natural and isn't.
I think it was the way in which they chose to express their homosexuality, rather than the homosexuality itself.
What would you say would be an example of this?
The point that its how you're made is debatable, but it is still a valid point.
I don't really see how. We have evidence indicating epigenetics which deals with gene expression as the reason for the existence of homosexuality.
I think it was the way in which they chose to express their homosexuality, rather than the homosexuality itself. The more modern meaning of Sodomy that you get when googling "define:sodomy" might help explain.
"Sodomy (pronounced /ËsÉ'dÉmi/) is a term used in the law to describe the act of "unnatural" sex, which depending on jurisdiction can consist of oral sex, **** sex, or any non-genital to genital congress, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or with human or animal."
What a load of crap. Also I hope Mormonism doesn't make the claim about God being all about free will because if he's wiping out entire cities for this he lose that one. You don't get to say you have free will then kill everyone for not getting it on the way he wants you to.
I also don't see how this can be regarded as unnatural. Seeking to do things that feel good is quite natural.
Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted answers or anything else in a while. I'll get you up to speed.
@Asherlee: You're right. It's not entirely true. It was only one of the many reasons, one of which was that they had, in a way, knowingly forsaken God. Again, committing a sin knowingly is what makes it a sin, and denying God after you have had a testimony of him is the worst. I guess I didn't really mean the WAY in which homosexuality is expressed rather than the way people try to force opinions on one another. I'll explain this a bit more in a future post (this post will be too long otherwise).
@MageGrayWolf: In a way, it is unnatural, but I see your point in that man naturally seeks enjoyment. Man also naturally seeks to have pride and to serve himself, among other things. We believe that we are to overcome the natural man.
"For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord"
~ Mosiah 3:19
Also, I don't think happiness is the right word (hence why I used enjoyment above). There is a difference between happiness and enjoyment, which I will not attempt to explain in this post, but will do so in a future post if you would like me to.
@E1337: To be honest, I stumbled when I read your posts. I'm still trying to figure out how to answer you. For now, I will say that I will not judge you for being gay. I have other friends who are gay, and I do not judge them. What I think is meant by choice is what you describe in your deal to me. While it may not be a choice to be gay, it is a choice to do many of the things associated with it (details of which I will not go into here). Coming out of the closet, especially to one's family, can be a hard thing to do, but it is the right thing to do.
As for animals, they are different from humans. It is instinctive for animals to do that. It is not instinctive for humans to do that. Specifics can be argued, but that is not the point of this thread.
Now, I am not going to speak on homosexuality any more in this thread, as it is not the main topic. If you would like me to answer any more questions on that subject, please throw me an email at linktopast30AG@gmail.com and I will get back to you. Just nothing else on that or plural marriage will be posted on this thread, as there are other things that can be asked that I haven't already answered.
In a way, it is unnatural,
In what way is that?
We believe that we are to overcome the natural man.
Wait the complaint is that it's unnatural and now your suppose to over come what is natural? So being unnatural is the way to go? Make up your mind.
As for animals, they are different from humans. It is instinctive for animals to do that. It is not instinctive for humans to do that.
Humans are animals, and humans engage is sexual behavior all the same as any other animal, there isn't any difference.
Now, I am not going to speak on homosexuality any more in this thread, as it is not the main topic.
I thought the point of this thread was to discuss the views of Mormonism? So that is exactly what we are doing with the discussions of homosexuality and polygamy, we are discussing them as it pertains to Mormon views.
and denying God after you have had a testimony of him is the worst
Hmm... This seems to take the "moral laziness" stance that theists often have of atheists - theists associate religion with morality, which atheists do not. Therefore, they believe that one of the potential causes of atheism is a shirking of moral responsibility.
This is a view that falls after some analysis. If one denies God after receiving testimony of Him, then they must be:
1. Irrational.
2. Believing that there is stronger evidence against the existence of God.
3. Really a theist.
I would venture to say that 2 is the most likely. If it is the "moral laziness" stance, then they are really 3, in which case they're really not atheist.
to have pride and to serve himself, among other things. We believe that we are to overcome the natural man.
The Bible said we are made in the image of God. I have 2 questions:
1. Why would we want to be anything other than what we naturally are?
2. If we do overcome the "natural man," doesn't that mean that this is what we have become is what is truly "natural"?
While it may not be a choice to be gay, it is a choice to do many of the things associated with it (details of which I will not go into here). Coming out of the closet, especially to one's family, can be a hard thing to do, but it is the right thing to do.
If it is not a choice to be gay, then why should you abstain from what you are? What about it is innately wrong?
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