Forums → WEPR → Mormonism
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I'm starting this topic to "continue" a conversation started in the Christians vs. Catholics thread. I will include some of the details from there, but the rest are up to anyone new to read up on. I will specifically post the contents of one post, more or less.
We did not baptize Adolf Hitler. That is a lie. After people baptized for Obama's mother, an official release was sent out saying that unless you specifically know the person who's name you are bringing in to do temple work for (not the names that they already have) or they are in your family, you cannot do temple work for them.
We are not barred from being around ex Mormons. We do not necessarily believe they are with Satan. We excommunicate people for their good. In our views, it gives them a second chance. They can rejoin the church later, and their sins will be gone, just as they were when they were first baptized. I know many ex Mormons, and I do not get in trouble for being with them.
South Park is in no way an authority on anything. The fact that you're trying to cite that is pathetic.
Yes, there was polygamy. But it was revoked in the 1890's (even if only for legal reasons). Joseph Smith did not try to burn down a newspaper place. He was taken to jail for no real reason. If he shot back, it was only because they were shooting at him.
The reason non members are not allowed in the temple is because of the sacred things that go on in there. If just anyone was allowed in, the spirit would be disrupted. I will expound on this if needs be.
I am personally ashamed of the acts of other Latter-Day Saints who have done temple work for people without permission from relatives of that person. It is wrong, and we know it.
Tithing... It was actually in Christ's day when it started. The only reason it affects our worthiness to enter the temple (not our standing in general). The Lord gave us everything we have, and all he asks is 10% of what we earn. I'd say that's a pretty small price for life, liberty, and happiness.
Also, we believe in Agency and Accountability. You can choose to do what you want, but you will have to accept the consequences.
I have a testimony of Jesus Christ. He is my savior and my redeemer. I believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and that Thomas S. Monson is the living prophet today. I believe the Bible to be true as far as it is correctly translated. I know that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we can be forgiven for our sins and return to live with our Heavenly Father. I have seen the Atonement in action in my life. I know that God listens to all prayers to him. He answers them in his own way. I know that I can make it to the Celestial Kingdom if I but do my best to keep the commandments of God.
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you forget, news travelled very slowly in those days. And once you were on the trail, you were pretty much out of the loop news wise.
They must have passed through some towns on their way and the closer to Utah territory they got the worse the stories they probably heard.
yes but it's easy to just turn around after spending your life savings, selling your home and buying a wagon.
Its also easy to pick a safer route so you dont die.
if i knew of a group of people who fled persecution were located in a general area.... and i was not of their particular persuasion then i would have avoided that area and gone around... anyone who has been persecuted has the potential to be bitter and hold a grudge... and once they have the power to defend themselves I would think them lashing out at intruders would be an expected and probable event.
i wouldn't have gone that way
@E1337, No the correct term for Church in LDS terminology is a Ward, smaller 'wards' are called Branches. The Temple is the building where those that hold a recommend go to perform several 'sacred' ordinances.
@MageGrayWolf he did more actually. Many of those have already been answered, and this shows he is ignoring everything. He also is TRYING to piss me off by saying he will make his posts as sharp as he pleases. You can now see why I have reason to believe he is simply a troll.
Okay, then could you answer my question. Do Mormons (at least the branch you belong to) believe the Heavenly Mother to be a goddess, even though she is not worshiped?
@E1337: It's not recommended that we go door to door at 8am, and I doubt that very many missionaries do that. If you ever get the chance, watch the movie The Best Two Years. It gives a pretty accurate portrayal of missionaries. You don't necessarily HAVE to watch it, but it's a good movie (there are some funny parts where they've hammed it up a bit), and it does "tell" you a bit about the life of a missionary.
As for your bipolar nature, please, seek help and take your medication, mental illeness is something that should be handled by people who actually know what they are doing.
Thank you, and I already do take medication for it (and ADHD, and asthma, and allergies lol). Those were late night posts. I should really stop doing those >.<
@MageGrayWolf no, the heavenly mother is not considered a goddess. We just believe that she exists.
@Kasic actually, there are more members outside the United States than inside
Temples are very different from churches. Churches are open to anyone - members and nonmembers. Temples are open only to members who are worthy to enter, meaning they are a full tithe payer and they keep God's commandments as best they can.
About the Mountain Meadows Massacre... History says there were rumors about the Fancher-Baker people bragging about their misdeeds to the Mormon people (this is unconfirmed, though). Two men, Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee, conspired to cause the Native Americans to massacre the people, or to make it look so. They and other men offered to guide the wagon train through dangerous Indian Territory, only to stop and for each militia man to shoot the man to his side. John D. Lee was later executed for his crime. Brigham Young believed this fate to be just, but it was not a sufficient blood atonement, given the crime, for Lee to make it to the Celestial Kingdom.
Now, I know someone is inevitably going to bring up the letter supposedly written by Brigham Young that implies his connection to it. It has recently been confirmed to be a forgery, and is believed to be one of Mark Hoffman's works. That's all I'll say on that.
Finally, referring to E1337's long list of things that makes a group a cult. Many of them seem to be redundant. I'll do my best to answer the rest, noting where I answer multiple questions in one answer because I deemed the questions redundant.
Link, that is called Henotheism when you worship 1 god but recognize others.
Considering they don't recognize your example as a god I don't think it counts.
But, having dealt with the church of Scientology, the secrecy aspect raises red flags. IF your belief system isn't on the level and wasn't absurd enough to drive new members away, why are you keeping your services secret?
The secretiveness of it does raise red flags with me as well.
i would think that just letting any given pedestrian walk in would be risking damage to the grounds and disruption in the service.... entry isn't forbidden... u just have to show that you believe and that you're respectful and ...most likely become part of their church... and you can go in.
i would think that something that's controversial like this would have tons of people wanting to just waltz in and tear things up and run out... you act as if there's no chance of that happening.
i don't think taxes have anything to do w/ it... if its a privately owned place.... and they don't want you there... then by law they can have you removed from the premises right?... as individual tax payers... they should have the right to make whatever group they want as exclusive as they want...as long as they're not hurting anyone
... and that's just for here in the US... i think there's a huge deal about the whole wailing wall thing w/ the jews and muslims. namely the muslims won't let the jews get past to pay homage to the former site of the supposed solomon's temple...
some churches only allow members to partake in communion... if you don't gel w/ their particular beliefs then that's why ,if you were a christian, you would find another denomination that had beliefs similar enough to yours that would make you happy
and you can watch any of their normal services that would equate to any that you'd see at any other type of denomination for free as long as you adhere to their "terms of service"
if a church... and not a cult... wanted to have a special type of service for its followers that was exclusive to said followers then why is that bad? they allow you the opportunity to become one... its not like its by blood heritage or anything... if you don't believe the way they do then that service probably wouldn't mean anything special to you anyway...
but if you still want to then you still want to... whatever
i would think that just letting any given pedestrian walk in would be risking damage to the grounds and disruption in the service.... entry isn't forbidden... u just have to show that you believe and that you're respectful and ...most likely become part of their church... and you can go in.
What if I don't want to join and don't believe but want to learn through experience of observing the proceedings first hand? I can be respectful and just sit back and watch to determine if I fit in or not for myself. I'm sure being more inclusive and less secretive would clear up a lot of the misunderstanding about them.
they should have the right to make whatever group they want as exclusive as they want...as long as they're not hurting anyone
Yes, but like with every other religion they are claiming to have all the answers. isn't that something that should be offered to everyone freely? Is the spiritual energy or what ever it is this religion has to keep non believers from disrupting really that weak?
@E1337 you seem to have a very messed up understanding of Mormonism. Anyone can enter the 'lace of worship' whether they are a member or not, paid tithing, have been Ex-conned or are the best Elder in the Ward.
It is the Temple that only those that hold a recommend, which they get by paying tithing, keeping to the Commandments that the LDS church subscribe too etc. No one can just walk into the Temple, whether they are nicely dressed or not.
if a church... and not a cult... wanted to have a special type of service for its followers that was exclusive to said followers then why is that bad?
Just want to say... if a religion has a church and worships something with some kind of ritual, be it service or prayer, then that IS a cult.
There was a thread on this a while back and we decided that there was no difference between a religion and a cult.
There was a thread on this a while back and we decided that there was no difference between a religion and a cult.
I would agree with that most of the time but religion can be followed without having to join a cult. If I believed in a greater entity than we can know but did not pray or venerate it, then perhaps I would have my own lil one man religion. On the most part I fully agree tho. The second you look to an idol in religion you have a cult. The irony of that is that supposedly jesus talks about not having idols and everyone who believes seems to completely ignore this. They turn around and say "yes jesus, no idols, we worship you"... eh!
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