Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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Do estimate the probability. I haven't heard anything but "unlikely" from anyone of you.
OK the probability is 0 because no one could have created him and him always being here is logically impossible. And anyway, to calculate that probability you would have to know every possible factor and no one does. Almost impossible seems adequate to me.
He wants us to desire this fate and ask for it. You don't want? Okay, remain in suffering. And, He doesn't want us to get converted by force because He doesn't like if someone is forced to love God - there can be no true love if one is forced to. So, you don't want to love God - you may, He won't be annoying.
It's not a matter of want and not want, it's a matter of exist and not exist. If he is as good as you say people would love him anyway they just need to know that he exists. Why did he make us need evidence and yet not give us any. That seems a mistake not worthy of an omniscient creator.
It's not a matter of want and not want, it's a matter of exist and not exist.This is wrong. Let's say, you are working somewhere, your computer behaves strangely but functions pretty well otherwise, so you repair any software issues by yourself. Now, an IT staff kid appeared and all of a sudden you are informed that there's IT personnel at your work. Your PC is sufficient for work, but then you understand that you can demand a better PC, and you do that just for the sake of it. <- This is the average human behavior, so if God will appear to everyone, there will be demands and DEMANDS off Him, which is bad for us since we'll fall into laziness - why working if we can ask God and He'll do everything for us? If I understand this right, this is the main reason of God not revealing Himself to entire people. You may also look at what Israeli people did when God led them through the desert, reading Exodus.
God can only show you the door, you are the one that has to walk through it.
This is wrong. Let's say, you are working somewhere, your computer behaves strangely but functions pretty well otherwise, so you repair any software issues by yourself. Now, an IT staff kid appeared and all of a sudden you are informed that there's IT personnel at your work. Your PC is sufficient for work, but then you understand that you can demand a better PC, and you do that just for the sake of it. <- This is the average human behavior, so if God will appear to everyone, there will be demands and DEMANDS off Him, which is bad for us since we'll fall into laziness - why working if we can ask God and He'll do everything for us? If I understand this right, this is the main reason of God not revealing Himself to entire people. You may also look at what Israeli people did when God led them through the desert, reading Exodus.
Yeah but all god would have to do is appear to everyone and say I exist and then go away. Since so many christians already know he exists I don't see why this should matter. People already make demands anyway. Haven't you heard of prayers?
God can only show you the door, you are the one that has to walk through it.
Well he could at least make it look like a door.
Well he could at least make it look like a door
Haha, you have a valid point.
Let's get down to the crux of it.
God is omniscient, right?
Well, guess what that word means?
having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.
He is also all powerful, correct?
So in other words, he KNOWS who is going to never believe in him, is all powerful, aka able to do anything, and yet, sends those to hell, which is controlled by a fallen angel, who he also knew would do that, and chooses to let the devil stay, because a person created by a rib who had no knowledge of good and evil was told not to eat a fruit, even though god MADE the tree look super nice and the fruit look super yummy, and then condemned them and all of their decendents to eternal hellfire unless they did a bunch of ridiculous things, for something he could have prevented ENTIRELY in the first place, or just FORGIVEN them. That is NOT an all loving god. How you convulute your thinking to that this is a loving god, I have no idea.
God is omniscient, right?
He is also all powerful, correct?
That would mean that he is not all-loving, since he can't be all three.
That would mean that he is not all-loving, since he can't be all three.
He "could" be all three, but as evidenced by the bible and EVERY other religious organization that believes in a diety, none are all loving. You can't be all powerful and omniscient and let people suffer in eternal hellfire, since you could stop it at any time but choose not to.
That would mean that he is not all-loving, since he can't be all three.
Well being omni benevolent is counter productive but at least having compassion would be acceptable. What happens now is that he condemns billions of people to a horrible fate.
God can only show you the door, you are the one that has to walk through it.
Exactly. He gives us the right to free will, in my opinion. Believe or don't, it's your PERSONAL decision.
Exactly. He gives us the right to free will, in my opinion. Believe or don't, it's your PERSONAL decision.
Yes...free will. Do what he says or burn for eternity. That's not free will. Read the bible, it's obvious he does not grant people free will. Jonah tried to run away from what god wanted him to do, and thus god made a storm and a whale ate him and he stayed there until he said he would do what god wanted. That is not free will.
Yes...free will. Do what he says or burn for eternity. That's not free will. Read the bible, it's obvious he does not grant people free will. Jonah tried to run away from what god wanted him to do, and thus god made a storm and a whale ate him and he stayed there until he said he would do what god wanted. That is not free will.
Hey kids! Only if you have an iron will for what is right which by the way, I didn't teach you to have will you be able to deny all this crap I offer you because I made you deal with more crap on your way to this good crap!!!
Ignore people who say "logic", they're spies of Satan...
- H
That's not free will.
Maybe that's not, but he still gives us the choice to believe or not. It's not like he's striking down everyone who doesn't believe, or else a lot of the people on this forum would be dead and unable to post any longer.
It's not like he's striking down everyone who doesn't believe
No, he only lets some fallen angel torture those who don't believe for all eternity.
Maybe that's not, but he still gives us the choice to believe or not
But he knew that I wouldn't believe in him because he's allknowing.
It's not like he's striking down everyone who doesn't believe,
No, he only tortures us for an eternity. That seems to be fair...
I've got a very important question: Why does God want us to believe in him? Why is it that important that he would torture us forever and ever and ever? Did he create us to be worshipped?
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