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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,151 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

let me get THIS straight. The name of God is granted from God. What other God granted his name to his followers, and wasn't named by them instead?


...does it matter? Who's the guy telling everyone that god told him what his name was? I'd accept it if some lightning bolt from the sky etched into the ground the symbols for his name, but if some guy just went around saying "God talked to me" that is probably delusion. Case and point, I COULD say that god talks to me, and he's telling me that I need to correct you because although you are well intentioned, you are wrong. How do you know i'm not actually being spoken to? God tells me that you will doubt me, and that I can only try and persist.
iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,030 posts
Peasant

let me get THIS straight. The name of God is granted from God. What other God granted his name to his followers, and wasn't named by them instead?


Just like you believe this is true for Christianity, I think it's true for most religions that the names their God(s) have were not made up by humans.

And I don't see how this would prove or disprove a religion, even if what you said was true.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

And I don't see how this would prove or disprove a religion, even if what you said was true.
Well, if it's true that a religion's god gave his name to his followers, and then did enough to lead them to good land, then that religion is true and their god is The God. Is it?
iMogwai
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iMogwai
2,030 posts
Peasant

Well, if it's true that a religion's god gave his name to his followers, and then did enough to lead them to good land, then that religion is true and their god is The God. Is it?


He'd have to exist to give the name, yes. But just saying that he did does not prove that he did.

Basically, the only thing supporting that he did give his name to his followers is the religion's belief itself, and the only thing supporting that religion's belief is that he gave his name to his followers. So proving one would be proving another, but without additional evidence of at least one of them, they don't prove anything.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

Juggling words is fruitless when it comes to God, since words are by their nature insufficient to explain anything in direct contact with God.


That was for our own understanding of that particular word. Your being ridiculous again.

This is normal, since most religions are man-made. If someone's god has been given name by men, that's not a true god. Therefore its attributes are not of divine origin and may not apply to the God that exists.


I could practically say the same thing if I just stuck with Christianity alone with it's 34,000+ versions.

Well, if it's true that a religion's god gave his name to his followers, and then did enough to lead them to good land, then that religion is true and their god is The God. Is it?


Muslims can say the same thing. And ever get a look at that land? Pretty much just dirt there. At least they can point to where their version of God signed his name on the planet.
http://www.miraclesofislam.com/africa.jpg
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

I could practically say the same thing if I just stuck with Christianity alone with it's 34,000+ versions.
Indeed, 33999 versions of Christianity are man-made, starting with Reformation. There are at least two version of Christianity maintaining apostolic succession, that means, their bishops are ordained by the canon of early Christian Church. These are Catholicism and Orthodoxy. So yes, our God gave us His name Himself, and Jesus the Son of the Father gave us His Holy Spirit, and Himself in Eucharist, that's why our churches are still standing, one survived Reformation and various undermining efforts, including the last with pedophile priests, the other survived pagan wars and Communist persecution.
That was for our own understanding of that particular word. Your being ridiculous again.
Well, since you base on the word definition, there is a "thou shalt not kill" that fits. And your passage of "In fact wouldn't..." contains an extrapolation fallacy. Claiming morality depending on personal belief rather than on God's will is just false, because you have just mentioned "morals from God".

About Muslims - first, their God is God of Abraham, thus is our God, and second, such a pic can be photoshopped. Not only photoshopped, but the very same trick that was in place with Turin's shroud could affect this, it was when a researcher claimed he discovered evidence of coins over the man's eyes, and some others said that it could be white noise, because of the technology used to photograph Turin's shroud in early age of photography. Also I cannot find any other mention of such a writing in the Sahara desert, and given that the sire is visibly pro-Islamic, it can just be wishful thinking above all else.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,470 posts
Farmer

Indeed, 33999 versions of Christianity are man-made, starting with Reformation.


And it just so happens the one you subscribe to is the right one? What a complete load of bull. You have no more support for your belief then any other religion or denomination there in. Furthermore your basically saying everyone who doesn't follow Christianity the way you do is wrong.

Well, since you base on the word definition, there is a "thou shalt not kill" that fits.


No it doesn't fit objectivity and is very often conditional, quite often based on how we feel about those conditions.

And your passage of "In fact wouldn't..." contains an extrapolation fallacy.


How so? If all aspects of God are subjective then any morality supposedly from God would also be.

Claiming morality depending on personal belief rather than on God's will is just false, because you have just mentioned "morals from God".


Considering I can only speak hypothetically on morality from God your pretty much talking out your back side.

About Muslims - first, their God is God of Abraham, thus is our

God, and second, such a pic can be photoshopped. Not only photoshopped, but the very same trick that was in place with Turin's shroud could affect this, it was when a researcher claimed he discovered evidence of coins over the man's eyes, and some others said that it could be white noise, because of the technology used to photograph Turin's shroud in early age of photography. Also I cannot find any other mention of such a writing in the Sahara desert, and given that the sire is visibly pro-Islamic, it can just be wishful thinking above all else.


I find it as realistic and as reliable as anything you've put forth.
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Here is the reason


This is actually the stupidest thing I have ever heard. You base your religion on the fact that Gods name is 4 letters long. And zeus is 4 letters long, that means he is real by your stupid logic.

let me get THIS straight. The name of God is granted from God. What other God granted his name to his followers, and wasn't named by them instead?


Parents name their kids. Not god. All gods are named by men. There is no one else to name a story.

Well, if it's true that a religion's god gave his name to his followers, and then did enough to lead them to good land, then that religion is true and their god is The God. Is it?


If God was real he'd give his name to his followers. God isn't so he couldn't have. and because some people wandered onto a land which they called good and said it must be god who led us here.

Indeed, 33999 versions of Christianity are man-made, starting with Reformation. There are at least two version of Christianity maintaining apostolic succession, that means, their bishops are ordained by the canon of early Christian Church. These are Catholicism and Orthodoxy. So yes, our God gave us His name Himself, and Jesus the Son of the Father gave us His Holy Spirit, and Himself in Eucharist, that's why our churches are still standing, one survived Reformation and various undermining efforts, including the last with pedophile priests, the other survived pagan wars and Communist persecution.


You think that you have the one right cult out of 34000. That is even stupider than saying a 4 letter name makes your god real. You have no proof for it and you were probably just born into it which is the only justification for your bias. Why does your magic sky fairy allow these slurs on the holy name.

About Muslims - first, their God is God of Abraham, thus is our God,


And Christianity is an abrahamic religion so your god is just allah in a different form. And you have different holy books, different methods of prayer, different lifestyles, basically a different religion.
Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

If God was real he'd give his name to his followers. God isn't so he couldn't have.

Actually, this is a false contraposition.

It should read:
If He gave his name to his followers, God is real. Therefore, if God isn't real, He didn't give his name to his followers.

( p -> q ) -> ( ~q -> ~p )
http://sonic.net/cgi/silver/tt.cgi?expr=%28%28+ph+-%3E+ps+%29+-%3E+%28+~ps+-%3E+~ph+%29%29
Truth table for contraposition ^
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

And it just so happens the one you subscribe to is the right one?
Even if I'm wrong and will be cast into Hell just for misbelief, I'll have the largest loyal community down there. And if you'll be cast there, you'll be alone. After all, there's more than a billion Catholics, say 150 million are active and devout.
No it doesn't fit objectivity and is very often conditional
Wha? Everyone must not kill, what exclusions and what conditions?
If all aspects of God are subjective then any morality supposedly from God would also be.
"All aspects of God are subjective" is false. Religions disagreeing on God's attributes don't alter the actual qualities of God.
you were probably just born into it which is the only justification for your bias.
You have lost the track of this topic a bit, I have already stated why am I this "biased" as you speak.
It should read:
If He gave his name to his followers, God is real. Therefore, if God isn't real, He didn't give his name to his followers.
Wow, you have just proven Christianity basing on the real God.
And Christianity is an abrahamic religion so your god is just allah in a different form.
Allah's name is written within the first verse of Quran, and is not a direct gift, like YHWH to Jews. However yes, Allah is another name for our God, used by Muslims, but since this name is man-made, the image of God is distorted by Muhammed, even if unintentionally. Yes, Christianity is Abrahamic religion, and Jesus was a faithful Judaist along with being Son of God. So what?
thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,151 posts
Peasant

Alright, I've seen enough. Vesper, I commend you highly for defending yourself by yourself in this thread, but no more. I'm back in this thing. Let's dance, muthaf***as

Kasic
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Kasic
5,557 posts
Jester

About Muhammed...He was the last person (That i'm aware of) to claim to be a prophet. Do you think he was one? If not, why so? If you do think so, then what about what he says that's contradictory to Christianity?

Highfire
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Highfire
3,026 posts
Nomad

what exclusions and what conditions?

Self defense.

Wow, you have just proven Christianity basing on the real God.

There is no real God that you have proved, you're talking about things on the basis that he is real, when, over 70 pages ago that has not been proven and if I remember correctly it the debate was resolved (I probably remembered incorrectly).

- H
qwerty1011
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qwerty1011
554 posts
Peasant

Even if I'm wrong and will be cast into Hell just for misbelief, I'll have the largest loyal community down there. And if you'll be cast there, you'll be alone. After all, there's more than a billion Catholics, say 150 million are active and devout.


Why does religion have to be the one bond. What about common interests, race, age etc. All religion means is that you have one thing in common which says nothing about our personalities.

Wow, you have just proven Christianity basing on the real God.


But your argument for Gods existence relies on God existing

Allah's name is written within the first verse of Quran, and is not a direct gift, like YHWH to Jews. However yes, Allah is another name for our God, used by Muslims, but since this name is man-made, the image of God is distorted by Muhammed, even if unintentionally. Yes, Christianity is Abrahamic religion, and Jesus was a faithful Judaist along with being Son of God. So what?


Hello, proof of your claim please. And I was making the point that to muslims what you said is reversed. You distorted the true god.
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

Even if I'm wrong and will be cast into Hell just for misbelief, I'll have the largest loyal community down there. And if you'll be cast there, you'll be alone. After all, there's more than a billion Catholics, say 150 million are active and devout.

What with all the people not believing in any god and just living life? They would also form a community down there, and I doubt that yours would be bigger. Also, we'd be happy that it isn't the end after all, even if it is painful; while you'd all be sad that you were wrong all the time.
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