Rascism - Armor Games Community

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phatcat

24 posts

Nomad

Posted May 25, '08 6:40pm UTC

As u say the North and South were fighting over economic power, why then weren't they doing this before slaverty why only when abolitionism was entering peoples minds. The south had enough workers before slavery so why did they rely on it so much during this period? If the southern people were defending their way of life, surely a culture which depends upon slavery is not a good one?

A.) They were fighting over economic power before slavery
B.) The south didn't have enough workers, and I don't know where you pulling that wrong statistic from.
C.) Lots of countries during this time period relied on slavery, to do hard grunt work that no one else wanted to do that made them money.
D.)

If the southern people were defending their way of life, surely a culture which depends upon slavery is not a good one?

I'm not going to comment on D until the two sentences you have relate to each other.

I wasnt talking about Europe as a whole just GBR. Serfdom did definitely exist in places such as Russia and Spain but GBR has a rural working population, so we didnt need sefs.
Not only this but GBR intercepted 1600 slave ships and saved 150000 slaves which is setting a good example to the rest of the Western World Europe and America alike.(that fact was from the link thanks)

You were definently referring to more than just Great Britain with this comment:

"I am not saying that the us was the only western country with slaves ,spain, holland, britain"

and your comments on how "why then is only the western countries that had a war over slavery" you were definetly saying that European countries in general handled slavery better than the territories, and early U.S did.

Don't get to excited about the example Britain was setting do yu know why they abolished slavery? Primarily because they thought they were better than slavery that slavery was beneath them not that slavery was wrong or immoral, but because they thought they thought they were better than slavery. And it didn't set an example because America had ended slave trade before Britain abolished slavery, meaning the only slaves allowed were those who were born from parents who were slaves. And besides Americans hated the British do you honestly believe they gave a rat's furry behind that they were stopping slave traders?

You were not there when i was attacked and as it happens his neck was red as they come so dont make assumptions and say dont bull**** me etc. Also i was not using the N word as u put it to offend people only quoting what the guy says to make a point about why i didn't like my time in America.

I'll re-iterate RED NECK is an obvious term that everyone is familiar with, and it's negative implications. There's no mistaking what you meant by Red neck, and I find even more shocking that your trying to defend yourself when it quite obvious what you really meant. You called him a red neck, and if if his neck was red the meaning behind the phrase is what was present. You were not using red as and adjective.

America sm dumb redneck shouted at

Don't bull shit me, your just insulting yourself by trying to skew what you actually meant. You even put the two words together.

and I'll just re-quote what I said about the N-word since you don't understand what I was saying about using it at all is bad.

And even though you not trying to be offensive by using the N-word, I and many others find the use of the word at all offensive, and will say the N-word when I need to refer to it.

I can see why you say that but as i landed in NY drove all the way to Florida cos we couldnt afford a direct flight we passed through all the Southern states on the way. There were confederate flags everywhere and there was a very intimidating atmosphere about the places where we went, however people in NY treated us normal.

Most people fly confederate flags not as their main reason cause they support slavery, because they support "the south". Although it is creepy going down south and seeing those flags...

Why cant i group people for the sake of ease. You lot is something people say, dont read into it too deeply.

You were refering to white Americans when you said "You lot" earlier, uhh "you lot" also implied me, and at that point you were calling me a racist with the text that followed that's why you can't group people because you inevitably effecting people. It seems utterly ridiculous that I would have to explain why you can't group all white people as one thing.

,not done>

[quote]As u say the North and South were fighting over economic power, why then weren't they doing this before slaverty why only when abolitionism was entering peoples minds. The south had enough workers before slavery so why did they rely on it so much during this period? If the southern people were defending their way of life, surely a culture which depends upon slavery is not a good one?[/quote]\r\n\r\nA.) They were fighting over economic power before slavery\r\nB.) The south didn't have enough workers, and I don't know where you pulling that wrong statistic from.\r\nC.) Lots of countries during this time period relied on slavery, to do hard grunt work that no one else wanted to do that made them money.\r\nD.)[quote]If the southern people were defending their way of life, surely a culture which depends upon slavery is not a good one?[/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm not going to comment on D until the two sentences you have relate to each other.\r\n\r\n[quote]I wasnt talking about Europe as a whole just GBR. Serfdom did definitely exist in places such as Russia and Spain but GBR has a rural working population, so we didnt need sefs.\r\nNot only this but GBR intercepted 1600 slave ships and saved 150000 slaves which is setting a good example to the rest of the Western World Europe and America alike.(that fact was from the link thanks)[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou were definently referring to more than just Great Britain with this comment:\r\n\r\n"I am not saying that the us was the only western country with slaves ,spain, holland, britain"\r\n\r\nand your comments on how "why then is only the western countries that had a war over slavery" you were definetly saying that European countries in general handled slavery better than the territories, and  early U.S did.\r\n\r\nDon't get to excited about the example Britain was setting do yu know why they abolished slavery? Primarily because they thought they were better than slavery that slavery was beneath them not that slavery was wrong or immoral, but because they thought they thought they were  better than slavery. And it didn't set an example because America had ended slave trade before Britain abolished slavery, meaning the only slaves allowed were those who were born from parents who were slaves. And besides Americans hated the British do you honestly believe they gave a rat's furry behind that they were stopping slave traders?\r\n\r\n[quote]You were not there when i was attacked and as it happens his neck was red as they come so dont make assumptions and say dont bull**** me etc. Also i was not using the N word as u put it to offend people only quoting what the guy says to make a point about why i didn't like my time in America.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI'll re-iterate RED NECK is an obvious term that everyone is familiar with, and it's negative implications. There's no mistaking what you meant by Red neck, and I find even more shocking that your trying to defend yourself when it quite obvious what you really meant. You called him a red neck, and if if his neck was red the meaning behind the phrase is what was present. You were not using red as and adjective. \r\n\r\n[quote]\r\nAmerica sm dumb redneck shouted at[/quote]\r\n\r\nDon't bull shit me, your just insulting yourself by trying to skew what you actually meant. You even put the two words together.\r\n\r\nand I'll just re-quote what I said about the N-word since you don't understand what I was saying about using it at all is bad.\r\n\r\n[quote]\r\nAnd even though you not trying to be offensive by using the N-word, I and many others find the use of the word [b]at all[/b] offensive, and will say the N-word when I need to refer to it.[/quote]\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote]I can see why you say that but as i landed in NY drove all the way to Florida cos we couldnt afford a direct flight we passed through all the Southern states on the way. There were confederate flags everywhere and there was a very intimidating atmosphere about the places where we went, however people in NY treated us normal.[/quote]\r\n\r\nMost people fly confederate flags not as their main reason cause they support slavery, because they support "the south". Although it is creepy going down south and seeing those flags...\r\n\r\n[quote]Why cant i group people for the sake of ease. You lot is something people say, dont read into it too deeply.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou were refering to white Americans when you said "You lot" earlier, uhh "you lot" also implied me, and at that point you were calling me a racist with the text that followed that's why you can't group people because you inevitably effecting people. It seems utterly ridiculous that I would have to explain why you can't group all white people as one thing.\r\n\r\n,not done>

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conquer01

149 posts

Farmer

Posted May 26, '08 1:32am UTC

So then, even assuming one think racism is wrong...
Voltaire: I don't agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death you right to say it.
Would you respect one's rascist comments by virtue of the fact that they said it?

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phatcat

24 posts

Nomad

Posted May 26, '08 3:18am UTC

Where in my argument have i included false information i am not just lying show me the incorrect facts. I may be stating opinions which you dont agree with which is fine but i think its stupid to completely disclaim my argument based on this.

I said,

"Please don't assume things about anyone you posting to it's very inappropriate, especially if you are accusing them and using such offensive epithets, and other low blow comments."

To which you responded,

"To ur last point im posting my opinion u post urs if u dont like it say what u like but u cant tell me not to post what i want"

To which i responded,

"You can't have an argument based on pre-judice and false information it doesn't work like that. no matter how much you want it to it wont. you can't say the things you said because you think it to be true when it's not. It's just your prejudice anyone else can tell you that."

Your questioning why I said you giving false information.

"Where in my argument have i included false information i am not just lying show me the incorrect facts. I may be stating opinions which you dont agree with which is fine but i think its stupid to completely disclaim my argument based on this."

I said that you were giving false information not because "your facts were wrong" (although some are) I said it because you've been very prejudice with all your arguments, and treated the stuff you said about me as fact in order to prove your points. I don't agree with any of your opinions just like I said earlier because they are based on prejudice, and misinformation (retrospectively a better word choice, but the implications are the same by definition).

oh and I just realized you said this:

"To ur last point im posting my opinion u post urs if u dont like it say what u like but u cant tell me not to post what i want"

I never said no to post your opinion I said

Please don't assume things about anyone your posting to it's very inappropriate, especially if you are accusing them and using such offensive epithets, and other low blow comments.

Big difference in me asking you to make arguments and opinions that are based on fact, and me saying NOT to post your opinion.

The only reason i could afford to go to America is cos my Grandad was dying in hospital so we spent our savings to see him as he always supported us in GBR. Not only this but i dont belive i have to prove the fact i am poor to you or anyone you think i enjoy living in a sink estate in South London its not fun so dont assume i am rich just because i went to America.

I hope you've learned a lesson and hoped what I did worked. You literally did the exact same thing to me earlier by saying

btw im guessin u r from a nice neighbourhood and havent experienced any 1st hand racism like i have so think about the perspective u r viewing it from.

By Assuming I'm rich, you did the exact same thing I did. it's not nice is it? It doesn't make sense does it to make assumptions based on little fact, and soft evidence.

Again my arguments are based on the facts that:
GBR abolished slavery nearly 60 yrs before most other countries.
When i went to America i was attacked cos i am black, retaliated and was charged myself.

So far that entire discussion has been dropped. It's now an argument on what your saying is illegitimate, and how the things you've said are hurtful to me and yet you continue to defend yourself, and you continue to lie about what you meant by redneck.

he did he was attacked by southern redneck white people and from ur point of view

(stop lieing the evidence is there you meant to be derogatory)

There is nothing further to discuss on the situation. If you want to PM me, and I will explain to you in further detail about the logical fallacies in your argument, and why in structured debate (and all debate) they don't fly.

But I'll return this thread to the original point, before you called me a racist and shifted this entire thread.

[quote]Where in my argument have i included false information i am not just lying show me the incorrect facts. I may be stating opinions which you dont agree with which is fine but i think its stupid to completely disclaim my argument based on this.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI said,\r\n\r\n"Please don't assume things about anyone you posting to it's very inappropriate, especially if you are accusing them and using such offensive epithets, and other low blow comments."\r\n\r\nTo which you responded,\r\n\r\n"To ur last point im posting my opinion u post urs if u dont like it say what u like but u cant tell me not to post what i want"\r\n\r\nTo which i responded,\r\n\r\n"You can't have an argument based on pre-judice and false information it doesn't work like that. no matter how much you want it to it wont.  you can't say the things you said because you think it to be true when it's not. It's just your prejudice anyone else can tell you that."\r\n\r\nYour questioning why I said you giving false information.\r\n\r\n"Where in my argument have i included false information i am not just lying show me the incorrect facts. I may be stating opinions which you dont agree with which is fine but i think its stupid to completely disclaim my argument based on this."\r\n\r\n\r\nI said that you were giving false information not because "your facts were wrong" (although some are) I said it because you've been very prejudice with all your arguments, and treated the stuff you said about me as fact in order to prove your points. I don't agree with any of your opinions just like I said earlier because they are based on prejudice, and misinformation (retrospectively a better word choice, but the implications are the same by definition).\r\n\r\noh and I just realized you said this:\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote]"To ur last point im posting my opinion u post urs if u dont like it say what u like but u cant tell me not to post what i want"[/quote]\r\n\r\nI never said no to post your opinion I said\r\n\r\n[quote]Please don't assume things about anyone your posting to it's very inappropriate, especially if you are accusing them and using such offensive epithets, and other low blow comments.[/quote]\r\n\r\nBig difference in me asking you to make arguments and opinions that are based on fact, and me saying NOT to post your opinion.\r\n\r\n[quote]The only reason i could afford to go to America is cos my Grandad was dying in hospital so we spent our savings to see him as he always supported us in GBR. Not only this but i dont belive i have to prove the fact i am poor to you or anyone you think i enjoy living in a sink estate in South London its not fun so dont assume i am rich just because i went to America.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI hope you've learned a lesson and hoped what I did worked. You literally did the exact same thing to me earlier by saying\r\n\r\n[quote]btw im guessin u r from a nice neighbourhood and havent experienced any 1st hand racism like i have so think about the perspective u r viewing it from.[/quote]\r\n\r\nBy Assuming I'm rich, you did the exact same thing I did. it's not nice is it? It doesn't make sense does it to make assumptions based on little fact, and soft evidence.\r\n\r\n[quote]Again my arguments are based on the facts that:\r\nGBR abolished slavery nearly 60 yrs before most other countries.\r\nWhen i went to America i was attacked cos i am black, retaliated and was charged myself.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo far that entire discussion has been dropped. It's now an argument on what your saying is illegitimate, and how the things you've said are hurtful to me and yet you continue to defend yourself, and you continue to lie about what you meant by redneck.\r\n\r\n[quote]he did he was attacked by southern redneck white people and from ur point of view[/quote] (stop lieing the evidence is there you meant to be derogatory)\r\n\r\nThere is nothing further to discuss on the situation. If you want to PM me, and I will explain to you in further detail about the logical fallacies in your argument, and why in structured debate (and all debate) they don't fly.\r\n\r\nBut I'll return this thread to the original point, before you called me a racist and shifted this entire thread.

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phatcat

24 posts

Nomad

Posted May 26, '08 3:24am UTC

Eddie13

I agree wit King,Sometimes people just dont like how we live or act.But as ill say again if america never started slavery thier wouldnt be this problem.

Phatcat

You have to remember almost every country has slaves back then. Slavery is non-unique to the u.s., racism wasn't caused by slavery because the original settlers from england were very racist towards Native Americans referring to them as savages even, and considering themselves superior to them. Slavery existed because of pre-judice, and hate not the other way around.

In short racism caused slavery, slavery did not cause racism. Racism existed before slavery. Slavery surely helped propagate racism, but it wasn't the sole cause eddie. If the reason were that simple, racism would have brushed over by now hatred over oppression doesn't last forever .

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Ichibon

136 posts

Peasant

Posted May 26, '08 3:34am UTC

@phatcat
What part of the south have you personally seen? The reason I ask is because I'm from Alabama.
Most people fly confederate flags not as their main reason cause they support slavery, because they support "the south". Although it is creepy going down south and seeing those flags...

Now you responded to his attack with that. I persona;;y don't like the confederate flag for what part of the community of people fly it for. But saying that it's creepy...do you think that is a statement in your lack of knowledge of the area or because you've seen movies and news reels where it was displayed in a derogatory way?

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The_Masquerade

140 posts

Nomad

Posted May 26, '08 3:49am UTC

phatcat, as far as I am concerned, slavery caused racism. Use logic, please. How could racism persist if the Americans went to Africa just to get workers? The workers became looked down on because they were slaves and deemed useless as they had absolutely no knowledge and power. The Americans went to said country for slaves, not because they were racist. They eventually found an excuse for all of this which was the color of their skin. In this case, slavery caused racism. But your statements about chronological order change this, as you were unclear. In this situation, slavery was before racism but even before that, racism persisted, not just to Blacks.

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Mac_MK

751 posts

Nomad

Posted May 26, '08 10:05am UTC

Everyone has racism thoughts you can't say no to that

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phatcat

24 posts

Nomad

Posted May 26, '08 5:27pm UTC

What part of the south have you personally seen? The reason I ask is because I'm from Alabama.

I was on my way to florida (visited a relative) so probably in virginia or georgia.

But saying that it's creepy...do you think that is a statement in your lack of knowledge of the area or because you've seen movies and news reels where it was displayed in a derogatory way?

I said it creepy because I can't help but think that another reason for them flying the flag is that some people still support "the south" succeeding from the union. I like how the two choices you gave me were both negative, but it's for a third reason. It's because I believe that displaying confederate flag is like slapping America in the face.

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phatcat

24 posts

Nomad

Posted May 26, '08 5:46pm UTC

phatcat, as far as I am concerned, slavery caused racism. Use logic, please. How could racism persist if the Americans went to Africa just to get workers?

First of all it they weren't Americans at the time when racism started they were British colonies, and secondly racism exist between other cultures, for more reasons than slavery. Don't insult my intelligence by telling me to use logic when your own isn't very coherent. It's ridiculous to say the racism wouldn't persist if slavery hadn't existed in the western colonies, when racism exist in every country even ones that didn't have slavery.

The workers became looked down on because they were slaves and deemed useless as they had absolutely no knowledge and power.

No, they were looked down upon because Europeans thought they were superior to everyone, before the colonist used Africans as slaves they used Native americans who christoper columbus referred to as
"savages", and regarded them as lower-life forms than himself and other Europeans. They were racist before slavery even existed.

The Americans went to said country for slaves, not because they were racist.

actually they did, they saw Africans the same way they did Native Americans "Savage and unruly people", because their customs and their dialects and skin color were different. They started using Africans as slaves because they were resistant to European diseases strains than Native Americans were.

They eventually found an excuse for all of this which was the color of their skin. In this case, slavery caused racism. But your statements about chronological order change this, as you were unclear. In this situation, slavery was before racism but even before that, racism persisted, not just to Blacks.

They found an excuse far before the color of their skin.

Do any of you truly know about early American history cause so far you've all said half-truth and, inaccurate facts about why things happened. One of you I know for sure isn't from America so I'm not terribly disappointed, but really to know about how Europeans in the New world viewed others at the time period...that's a 5th grade history class?

[quote]phatcat, as far as I am concerned, slavery caused racism. Use logic, please. How could racism persist if the Americans went to Africa just to get workers? [/quote]\r\n\r\nFirst of all it they weren't Americans at the time when racism started they were British colonies, and secondly racism exist between other cultures, for more reasons than slavery. Don't insult my intelligence by telling me to use logic when your own isn't very coherent. It's ridiculous to say the racism wouldn't persist if slavery hadn't existed in the western colonies, when racism exist in every country even ones that didn't have slavery.\r\n\r\n[quote]The workers became looked down on because they were slaves and deemed useless as they had absolutely no knowledge and power.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo, they were looked down upon because Europeans thought they were superior to everyone, before the colonist used Africans as slaves they used Native americans who christoper columbus referred to as \r\n"savages", and regarded them as lower-life forms than himself and other Europeans. They were racist before slavery even existed.\r\n\r\n[quote]The Americans went to said country for slaves, not because they were racist.[/quote]\r\n\r\nactually they did, they saw Africans the same way they did Native Americans "Savage and unruly people", because their customs and their dialects and skin color were different. They started using Africans as slaves because they were resistant to European diseases strains than Native Americans were.\r\n\r\n[quote]They eventually found an excuse for all of this which was the color of their skin. In this case, slavery caused racism. But your statements about chronological order change this, as you were unclear. In this situation, slavery was before racism but even before that, racism persisted, not just to Blacks.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThey found an excuse far before the color of their skin. \r\n\r\nDo any of you truly know about early American history cause so far you've all said half-truth and, inaccurate facts about why things happened. One of you I know for sure isn't from America so I'm not terribly disappointed, but really to know about how Europeans in the New world viewed others at the time period...that's a 5th grade history class?

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parkermb68

323 posts

Nomad

Posted May 27, '08 3:35am UTC

Racism is horrible, black people are equal, I am white, I have black friends. Why? Because there skin doesn't look pure means there bad? Why? Majority of people in poverty are black people... And poverty is horrible. Why? Because the jobs they get don't pay well, because there job owners try to take advantage. Why? We don't know.

White&Black are all smart! We all fought for America. Both.

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KichiProwerxX

139 posts

Nomad

Posted May 27, '08 3:42am UTC

I Think Colors Of Skins Don't Matter. "ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUALLY." That IS A True Statement. Everyone Should Be Treated The Same Way.
Another Thing That's Just Like Rascism, Is Sexist. Which Isn't Fair Either. Boys And Girls Of Different Skin Colors Can Be Friends! We Don't Need To Be Racial To Other People, They Did NOTHING To Us!

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kanethebrain

242 posts

Nomad

Posted May 27, '08 4:24am UTC

I'm going to comment on some of the things phatcat has been discussing in one fell swoop:

Racism existed before slavery, during slavery, and after slavery. Slavery existed between people of the same race (Africans enslaved each other, Romans enslaved other Europeans, and the ancient Mesopotamians enslaved each other back and forth for millenia).

Southerners were not and are not the only racist people. I know people that were born and raised in the South that did more for bringing the races together than any northerner I met. I also know Southerners that want to kill all brown people.

I live in Georgia, and it's not hard to find Confederate flags flying around the state. (Let's ignore the terminology debate for a while: we all know that I'm talking about the stars and bars here). Are all people flying one of those flags racist? No. Is there a high correlation? Yes.

The trick to changing a racists opinions is to introduce them to persons from another race. Turns out some of the most racist people out there have never interacted with someone from another race except to insult them.

I'm going to comment on some of the things phatcat has been discussing in one fell swoop:\r\n\r\nRacism existed before slavery, during slavery, and after slavery. Slavery existed between people of the same race (Africans enslaved each other, Romans enslaved other Europeans, and the ancient Mesopotamians enslaved each other back and forth for millenia). \r\n\r\nSoutherners were not and are not the only racist people. I know people that were born and raised in the South that did more for bringing the races together than any northerner I met. I also know Southerners that want to kill all brown people. \r\n\r\nI live in Georgia, and it's not hard to find Confederate flags flying around the state. (Let's ignore the terminology debate for a while: we all know that I'm talking about the stars and bars here). Are all people flying one of those flags racist? No. Is there a high correlation? Yes.\r\n\r\nThe trick to changing a racists opinions is to introduce them to persons from another race. Turns out some of the most racist people out there have never interacted with someone from another race except to insult them.

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phatcat

24 posts

Nomad

Posted May 27, '08 2:20pm UTC

Racism existed before slavery, during slavery, and after slavery. Slavery existed between people of the same race (Africans enslaved each other, Romans enslaved other Europeans, and the ancient Mesopotamians enslaved each other back and forth for millenia).

yes

Southerners were not and are not the only racist people. I know people that were born and raised in the South that did more for bringing the races together than any northerner I met. I also know Southerners that want to kill all brown people.

Yes

I live in Georgia, and it's not hard to find Confederate flags flying around the state. (Let's ignore the terminology debate for a while: we all know that I'm talking about the stars and bars here). Are all people flying one of those flags racist? No. Is there a high correlation? Yes.

Yes!

The trick to changing a racists opinions is to introduce them to persons from another race. Turns out some of the most racist people out there have never interacted with someone from another race except to insult them.

YES!

couldn't agree more

[quote]Racism existed before slavery, during slavery, and after slavery. Slavery existed between people of the same race (Africans enslaved each other, Romans enslaved other Europeans, and the ancient Mesopotamians enslaved each other back and forth for millenia).[/quote]\r\n\r\nyes\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote]Southerners were not and are not the only racist people. I know people that were born and raised in the South that did more for bringing the races together than any northerner I met. I also know Southerners that want to kill all brown people.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes\r\n\r\n[quote]\r\nI live in Georgia, and it's not hard to find Confederate flags flying around the state. (Let's ignore the terminology debate for a while: we all know that I'm talking about the stars and bars here). Are all people flying one of those flags racist? No. Is there a high correlation? Yes.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes!\r\n\r\n[quote]\r\nThe trick to changing a racists opinions is to introduce them to persons from another race. Turns out some of the most racist people out there have never interacted with someone from another race except to insult them.[/quote]\r\n\r\n[b]YES![/b]\r\n\r\ncouldn't agree more

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123b00mudead

82 posts

Nomad

Posted May 27, '08 2:46pm UTC

i agree racism is probably the most stupid idea in anybodys little head because God made us all so why hate em were supposed to be together or south would of won the civil war

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Ichibon

136 posts

Peasant

Posted May 27, '08 10:33pm UTC

Well the thing that is so irritating about it to me is that it will never go away. It's been around since the first of civilizations and it'll be here long after I'm gone. It's sad really. I've that that in my 26 years on this rock, it's better to just help people change by living the example.

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