Can opinions be wrong/incorrect - Armor Games Community

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vilano

20 posts

Nomad

Posted November 5, '12 10:50pm UTC

No an opinion can never be wrong or incorrect under any circumstances.

If your opinions are based on invalid facts then your opinions are wrong.

If your opinion is based on facts, correct or incorrect, it's not an opinion it's a theory, hypothesis, deduction.

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pickpocket

5,952 posts

Shepherd

Posted November 5, '12 11:43pm UTC

Whether an opinion is wrong or correct is an opinion. Whether that opinion is wrong or right is another opinion. Whether that opinion is wrong or right is yet another opinion. Ex.
Except this. This is a fact.
Opinion-ception

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rayoflight3

437 posts

Nomad

Posted November 6, '12 12:44am UTC

but the opinion that evolution isn't real is a wrong opinion.

I wouldn't even call this an opinion. This is just false.

@VonHeisenbourg

Nah opinions are subjective, they can be derived from poor sources and or invalid facts, but the opinion will never be wrong. A person can change his opinion on something, but that won't have made that opinion wrong.

Not an opinion: All Canadians are mounties and say "eh" all the time, therefore Canadians suck.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You state that an opinion can be derived from invalid facts. Now assuming you're defining "invalid" as "false," that first clause of your example, "All Canadians are mounties and say 'eh' all the time," is invalid. You would agree, however, that the second clause, "Canadians suck," would be an opinion if it existed on its own though, right? So why isn't the overall statement an opinion by your definition? The opinion is simply derived from an untrue fact.

[quote]but the opinion that evolution isn't real is a wrong opinion.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI wouldn't even call this an opinion. This is just false.\r\n\r\n@VonHeisenbourg\r\n\r\n[quote]Nah opinions are subjective, they can be derived from poor sources and or invalid facts, but the opinion will never be wrong. A person can change his opinion on something, but that won't have made that opinion wrong.[/quote]\r\n\r\n[quote]Not an opinion: All Canadians are mounties and say "eh" all the time, therefore Canadians suck.[/quote]\r\n\r\nCorrect me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You state that an opinion can be derived from invalid facts. Now assuming you're defining "invalid" as "false," that first clause of your example, "All Canadians are mounties and say 'eh' all the time," is invalid. You would agree, however, that the second clause, "Canadians suck," would be an opinion if it existed on its own though, right? So why isn't the overall statement an opinion by your definition? The opinion is simply derived from an untrue fact.

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VonHeisenbourg

377 posts

Peasant

Posted November 6, '12 1:55am UTC

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here. You state that an opinion can be derived from invalid facts. Now assuming you're defining "invalid" as "false," that first clause of your example, "All Canadians are mounties and say 'eh' all the time," is invalid. You would agree, however, that the second clause, "Canadians suck," would be an opinion if it existed on its own though, right? So why isn't the overall statement an opinion by your definition? The opinion is simply derived from an untrue fact.

Indeed, I just did contradict myself.

I hate it when that happens =.= I suppose I have to rescind my stance on this matter and say that opinions in certain situations.

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TheMostManlyMan

5,870 posts

Chamberlain

Posted November 6, '12 1:59am UTC

Certain opinions can and others can't, for example: how to fix this plumbing problem, you say that ducttape is the best way to solve the problem, I say something else is, and as wonderful as ducttape is it is not the best solution.
Other exple: I say that This car is amazing and you say it's awful and should never have been made, you can't prove or deny that it is good or bad.

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Patrick2011

12,319 posts

Templar

Posted November 6, '12 2:40am UTC

I say something else is, and as wonderful as ducttape is it is not the best solution.

But how would you prove that duct tape is not the best solution? If you can't prove that statement right or wrong, then it's an opinion.

A fact is either right or wrong.

An opinion is neither right nor wrong, but an opinion is bad if it's based on wrong information. If it is, then it's only an opinion if it can't be proven right or wrong.

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Jacen96

3,087 posts

Bard

Posted November 6, '12 5:12am UTC

An opinion can be both wrong and right, wrong in the facts, but right because that is what they truly believe, and you should respect that.

~~~Darth Caedus

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rayoflight3

437 posts

Nomad

Posted November 6, '12 5:37am UTC

An opinion can be both wrong and right, wrong in the facts, but right because that is what they truly believe, and you should respect that.

Does that mean bigotry is right?

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Devoidless

3,675 posts

Jester

Posted November 6, '12 7:03am UTC

You can't be wrong about an opinion...

In my opinion, 2+2 equals 5.
And the sky is orange.
And fish are rocks.

I've been in too many debates with people that, when they get backed into a corner, they play the Opinion card. Simply because they see it as an impenetrable shield which automatically ends the debate in a stalemate. Yet that is pure sophistry. Somethings you can not just shove into the opinion category, making it neither right or wrong.

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heyitsleo

43 posts

Nomad

Posted November 6, '12 7:54am UTC

I've been in too many debates with people that, when they get backed into a corner, they play the Opinion card.

I then play the "I'm here to change your opinion" card.

Somethings you can not just shove into the opinion category, making it neither right or wrong.

Well that's just your opinion XD

Yo dawg I herd you like opinions so we put an opinion inside of an opinion so you can throw an opinion while you throw an opinion 8D

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xeano321

3,152 posts

Farmer

Posted November 6, '12 5:38pm UTC

" Man, the beatles have like no fans!"

That's more of a statement rather then an opinion. An opinion is ones viewpoint of an issue.

Take light bulbs for example... Let's say that someone presents you with two different brands of light bulbs (GE and Philips for example), and asks which you prefer. You say you prefer GE, so in your opinion GE is a better light bulb.

In my opinion, I believe that this is an excellent example of an opinion. =D

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HahiHa

8,256 posts

Regent

Posted November 6, '12 5:50pm UTC

An opinion can be both wrong and right, wrong in the facts, but right because that is what they truly believe, and you should respect that.

Attacking someone just for holding a specific opinion is hipocrisy, but if the reason for said opinion is false/unfounded, does the opinion magically stay untouchable even though there's no good reason to hold it?

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Kasic

5,546 posts

Jester

Posted November 6, '12 6:17pm UTC

I'm going to try and classify what's been talked about in this thread.

-Operational definitions

An opinion is: "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:"

For the purpose of this conversation, let's say that there are currently five ways we can evaluate an opinion.

1) "Good" opinion. This is an opinion which, (if comparable to facts) is a logical conclusion and can be objectively proven or supported.

ex. Harvard is a good school because the students there are often highly succesful.

2) "Bad" opinion. This is an opinion which (if comparable to facts) is not a logical conclusion or is based on superfluous or ignorant reasons.

ex. Jimmy is a bad person because he hit a squirrel while driving.

3) "Assertive" opinion. This is where one voices their opinion against another's. This may or may not have a 'better' option.

ex. Thomas thinks the room is cold, while Samuel thinks it is comfortable.

4) Subjective Opinion. This is an opinion which relies entirely on personal experience or preference.

ex. Vanilla cake is the best tasting type of cake.

5) False Opinion. This is an opinion which is undeniably inaccurate from a factual standpoint.

ex. All teenagers are rowdy.

Now, let's look at types of opinions.

-Opinions on Preference: These cannot be wrong or incorrect unless they directly create an innate factual comparison to something else. Most often a Subjective opinion.

-Opinions on Quality: These can often be subjectively compared to other like-topics and are either "Good" or "Bad" opinions.

-Opinions on Accuracy: These are based on factual matters. Try not to get confused between a claim and an opinion. It is NOT an opinion if it is about physical properties of an object. These are often "Assertive" opinions.

-The difference between a claim and an opinion:

A claim makes a concrete statement about a topic.

An opinion is how someone views something.

Opinions can be hidden inside claims, but are not necessarily right or wrong. Can be irrelevant.

Opinions can be wrong depending on the topic.

Anyone have anything they want to add or take away?

I'm going to try and classify what's been talked about in this thread.\r\n\r\n-[b]Operational definitions[/b]\r\n\r\n[url=http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/opinion]An opinion is[/url]: "a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:"\r\n\r\nFor the purpose of this conversation, let's say that there are currently five ways we can evaluate an opinion.\r\n\r\n1) [b]"Good" opinion[/b]. This is an opinion which, (if comparable to facts) is a logical conclusion and can be objectively proven or supported.\r\n\r\nex. Harvard is a good school because the students there are often highly succesful. \r\n\r\n2) [b]"Bad" opinion[/b]. This is an opinion which (if comparable to facts) is not a logical conclusion or is based on superfluous or ignorant reasons.\r\n\r\nex. Jimmy is a bad person because he hit a squirrel while driving.\r\n\r\n3) [b]"Assertive" opinion[/b]. This is where one voices their opinion against another's. This may or may not have a 'better' option.\r\n\r\nex. Thomas thinks the room is cold, while Samuel thinks it is comfortable. \r\n\r\n4) [b]Subjective Opinion[/b]. This is an opinion which relies entirely on personal experience or preference.\r\n\r\nex. Vanilla cake is the best tasting type of cake.\r\n\r\n5)[b] False Opinion[/b]. This is an opinion which is undeniably inaccurate from a factual standpoint.\r\n\r\nex. All teenagers are rowdy. \r\n\r\nNow, let's look at types of opinions.\r\n\r\n-[b]Opinions on Preference[/b]: These cannot be wrong or incorrect [i]unless they directly create an innate factual comparison to something else[/i]. Most often a Subjective opinion.\r\n\r\n-[b]Opinions on Quality[/b]: These can often be subjectively compared to other like-topics and are either "Good" or "Bad" opinions. \r\n\r\n-[b]Opinions on Accuracy[/b]: These are based on factual matters. Try not to get confused between a claim and an opinion. It is NOT an opinion if it is about physical properties of an object. These are often "Assertive" opinions.\r\n\r\n-[b]The difference between a claim and an opinion[/b]:\r\n\r\nA claim makes a concrete statement about a topic.\r\n\r\nAn opinion is how someone views something.\r\n\r\nOpinions can be hidden inside claims, but are not necessarily right or wrong. Can be irrelevant. \r\n\r\nOpinions [b]can[/b] be wrong depending on the topic.\r\n\r\nAnyone have anything they want to add or take away?

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vilano

20 posts

Nomad

Posted November 6, '12 8:03pm UTC

5) False Opinion. This is an opinion which is undeniably inaccurate from a factual standpoint.

If a "opinion" can be looked up and checked by facts (proved / disproved) then it isn't an opinion it's a statement, theory, hypothesis, deduction, generalization, etc.

ex. All teenagers are rowdy.

This is not an opinion. This is a stereotype or generalization, or an observation based on personal experience. If we were talking about a specific person and you said "This teenager is rowdy" then that is an opinion, even though in my opinion this teenager's behavior is polite and respectful based on your standards you could say he his rowdy, that is your personal judgement. Although illogical or strange, it is your opinion and it is not incorrect.

You cannot categorize opinions, all opinions are valid and cannot be wrong, even if they are illogical. It seems most people in this thread confuse facts, deductions, and opinions.

Let me explain what an opinion is in my own words instead of relying on dictionary definitions which judging from this thread obviously don't understand.

An opinion is a statement that reflects your personal thought or judgement on something, an ethical or moral question, a "which one do you like better?" question, or simply a statement voicing your belief about something.

Man, the beatles have like no fans

This is a valid and correct opinion. "Like no" can be anywhere from 10 to 10 million in this person's eyes. His opinion is not wrong or incorrect, however it may be illogical or strange to some people.

if your opinion is based on WRONG information, it's not a good opinion

If something is based on information, data, or facts it's not an opinion.

Since people can and do hold opinions about factual matters, however, some opinions are indeed right or wrong. The opinion that Twilight is well-written is a bad opinion, but the opinion that evolution isn't real is a wrong opinion.

If in my opinion Twilight is well written, you have no grounds to tell me if my opinion is right or wrong. If you hire 100 writing experts that each point out certain errors and argue that Twilight is terribly written, I can still say that in my opinion it is perfect. That is the essence of an opinion. It is a valid, correct opinion. You can say in your opinion my opinion is incorrect.

Saying that evolution isn't real isn't an opinion, it is simply a contradiction of a fact. It cannot be classified as an opinion because it can be disproved.

If your opinions are based on invalid facts then your opinions are wrong. It's like writing a research paper using bad sources; it'll have a lot of errors, despite you not changing anything.

If your statement is based on fact (valid or invalid) than it is not an opinion, it is a deduction, conclusion, theory, etc.

Whether an opinion is wrong or correct is an opinion.

Bingo! However this only applies if the original statement actually is an opinion.

An opinion is neither right nor wrong, but an opinion is bad if it's based on wrong information

Once again I repeat, if a statement is based on information, data, or fact, whether it is valid or invalid, proved or disprove information, data, or fact, then it is not an opinion.

Attacking someone just for holding a specific opinion is hipocrisy, but if the reason for said opinion is false/unfounded, does the opinion magically stay untouchable even though there's no good reason to hold it?

Hypocrisy is when you contradict yourself. Attacking someone's opinion is called a debate. If the reason for an opinion is false and can be proved false it is not an opinion it is a conclusion, theory, deduction based on fact. The essence of an opinion is the fact that is is unfounded!

I hope you now better understand what an opinion is.

[quote]5) False Opinion. This is an opinion which is undeniably inaccurate from a factual standpoint.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIf a "opinion" can be looked up and checked by facts (proved / disproved) then it isn't an opinion it's a statement, theory, hypothesis, deduction, generalization, etc. \r\n\r\n[quote]ex. All teenagers are rowdy. [/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is not an opinion. This is a stereotype or generalization, or an observation based on personal experience. If we were talking about a specific person and you said "This teenager is rowdy" then that is an opinion, even though in my opinion this teenager's behavior is polite and respectful based on your standards you could say he his rowdy, that is your personal judgement. Although illogical or strange, it is your opinion and it is not incorrect.\r\n\r\nYou cannot categorize opinions, all opinions are valid and cannot be wrong, even if they are illogical. It seems most people in this thread confuse facts, deductions, and opinions.\r\n\r\nLet me explain what an opinion is in my own words instead of relying on dictionary definitions which judging from this thread obviously don't understand.\r\n\r\nAn opinion is a statement that reflects your personal thought or judgement on something, an ethical or moral question, a "which one do you like better?" question, or simply a statement voicing your belief about something.\r\n\r\n[quote]Man, the beatles have like no fans[/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is a valid and correct opinion. "Like no" can be anywhere from 10 to 10 million in this person's eyes. His opinion is not wrong or incorrect, however it may be illogical or strange to some people.\r\n\r\n[quote]if your opinion is based on WRONG information, it's not a good opinion[/quote]\r\n\r\nIf something is based on information, data, or facts it's not an opinion.\r\n\r\n[quote]Since people can and do hold opinions about factual matters, however, some opinions are indeed right or wrong. The opinion that Twilight is well-written is a bad opinion, but the opinion that evolution isn't real is a wrong opinion.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIf in my opinion Twilight is well written, you have no grounds to tell me if my opinion is right or wrong. If you hire 100 writing experts that each point out certain errors and argue that Twilight is terribly written, I can still say that in my opinion it is perfect. That is the essence of an opinion. It is a valid, correct opinion. You can say [b]in your opinion[/b] my opinion is incorrect.\r\n\r\nSaying that evolution isn't real isn't an opinion, it is simply a contradiction of a fact. It cannot be classified as an opinion [b]because it can be disproved.[/b]\r\n\r\n[quote]If your opinions are based on invalid facts then your opinions are wrong. It's like writing a research paper using bad sources; it'll have a lot of errors, despite you not changing anything.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIf your statement is based on fact (valid or invalid) than it is not an opinion, it is a deduction, conclusion, theory, etc.\r\n\r\n[quote]Whether an opinion is wrong or correct is an opinion.[/quote]\r\n\r\nBingo! However this only applies if the original statement [b]actually is an opinion.[/b]\r\n\r\n[quote]An opinion is neither right nor wrong, but an opinion is bad if it's based on wrong information[/quote]\r\n\r\nOnce again I repeat, if a statement is based on information, data, or fact, whether it is valid or invalid, proved or disprove information, data, or fact, then it is not an opinion.\r\n\r\n[quote]Attacking someone just for holding a specific opinion is hipocrisy, but if the reason for said opinion is false/unfounded, does the opinion magically stay untouchable even though there's no good reason to hold it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nHypocrisy is when you contradict yourself. Attacking someone's opinion is called a debate. If the reason for an opinion is false and can be proved false it is not an opinion it is a conclusion, theory, deduction based on fact. [b]The essence of an opinion is the fact that is is unfounded![/b]\r\n\r\nI hope you now better understand what an opinion is.

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thebluerabbit

5,340 posts

Farmer

Posted November 6, '12 8:28pm UTC

an opinion cant be right or wrong. unforunately many people are too stupid to understand whats an opinion and whats a fact.

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