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xAyjAy
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xAyjAy
4,710 posts
Blacksmith

let us say there could be places like heaven and hell...

..what would happen with people who can not believe after they die? what happens with people who never had the chance to believe anything after they died? what happens with people who forgot that there is a god (altzheimers) or people who are mentally handicapped or people in a coma when they die?

my point is that believe can not be the only "thing" that decides wether they get into heaven or hell (if these places even exist).

just a thought i had today.

  • 154 Replies
Vendablebow
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Vendablebow
30 posts
Nomad

Technically speaking, they are difference figures to worship..so which is the "correct" one?


Well technically Jesus said, "The only way to the father is through me."

Even the Koran lists Jesus as at least a prophet in their eyes, although they do not refer to him as the Son of God.

Think about all of the biblical figures in all books. Jobe gave up his wife, his children, everything for his faith in God.

Jesus gave up his life for everyone so that they can be saved. Sorry but, even the dullest knife in the drawer could identify Jesus as the Superhero here.
Vendablebow
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Vendablebow
30 posts
Nomad

Jesus also never said for you to kill someone in his name either. I do not recall ever reading a quote such as that from any book of the new testament. Jesus said all the right things, it us who have done the wrong.

It is easy to get caught up in it, the crusades, your average crazy as*s religious fanatic, but in the end everything he said was truth. What is truth? You already know what it is.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Well technically Jesus said, "The only way to the father is through me."


Yes, send the only way to heaven ~4000 years after humanity is created. Everyone born before that time, well, sucks to be them I suppose.

Even the Koran lists Jesus as at least a prophet in their eyes, although they do not refer to him as the Son of God.


The Koran directly refutes that Jesus was the son of God.

Think about all of the biblical figures in all books. Jobe gave up his wife, his children, everything for his faith in God.


Unwillingly. God made a bet with Satan on whether Job would give up his faith if God took everything from him. Satan had some lols and God punished one of his most loyal followers for absolutely no reason, because Satan egged him on. This is supposed to demonstrate God's loving, just nature, right?

Jesus gave up his life for everyone so that they can be saved. Sorry but, even the dullest knife in the drawer could identify Jesus as the Superhero here.


Jesus was born to be sacrificed. That's what God created him for. God could not forgive everyone for being how he created them, so instead he creates another innocent person and has him brutally killed.

Jesus also never said for you to kill someone in his name either.


No, but he did go on and on and on about how perfect he was and how everyone else was terrible. Narcissistic, at the very least. He also got violent with a few people and affirmed God's previous commands. In addition to saying that everything he did was just and that everything God did was just, which includes having killed hundreds of thousands of people.

Jesus said all the right things, it us who have done the wrong.


And God made us.

What is truth? You already know what it is.


Protip: Don't make statements like this. In a debate scenario, you're asking for trouble if you say this.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

All three are very similar in context.


That's because they all have the same origin.

He was kind, and we know for a fact actually existed.


Actully no we don't know that for a fact. Actually I would say Muhammad has better historicity.

but one thing you cannot disavow is that Jesus Christ existed, was real, and was here.


http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/23332906.jpg

Can you prove Leonidas existed? or arostotle, galileo, socrates, ceaser, any one of them existed?

Thank you sir, and this is my point. When it comes to a religious head figure, all of a sudden there are now doubts on their existence? lol


It's possible some of them didn't exist, and were just devices by others. Though determining the existence of a historic figure we look for things like first hand accounts and physical evidence. We find writings from their students talking about the person. (Unlike the Bible which is written by an anonymous author and just has a contemporaries name attached as credit)

We can cross reference other historical events and see how the described events match up.
Jesus Timeline

We can examine the writing for possible forgery o influence by earlier fictional writings.
Excavating The Empty Tomb

Also the claims of such figures like Jesus tend to be extraordinary, as such we require equally extraordinary evidence to back up the claim. A guy talking philosophy or ruling a nation is far less extraordinary than a guy doing things that would seem to go against the laws of physics.

Anyone here up on how we determine the historicity of something/one?

More,
Historicity Of Jesus FAQ
Salvidian
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Salvidian
4,170 posts
Farmer

Unwillingly. God made a bet with Satan on whether Job would give up his faith if God took everything from him. Satan had some lols and God punished one of his most loyal followers for absolutely no reason, because Satan egged him on. This is supposed to demonstrate God's loving, just nature, right?


****. I can't find my annotations for when I read the Book of Job for AP Lit. Anyway, I remember that it was looked upon as being a serious paradox. Job's "friends" (Eliphaz and the other 2 guys that I can't remember) tell Job that he did something wrong. God basically let Satan do these things so God could teach his 3 friends a lesson; the lesson being that they didn't know how God worked. Because of Job's trouble, God gave Job a much better life than he previously had, minus the dead kids. God had reasoning.

Jobe gave up his wife


No he didn't. Job's wife was kept alive because she was a nagging *****.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Think about all of the biblical figures in all books. Jobe gave up his wife, his children, everything for his faith in God.

Jephthah sacrificed his daughter as a burnt offering and Samson killed thousands in his faithful suicide. What's your point?
Vendablebow
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Vendablebow
30 posts
Nomad

^^ Again old testament, and if your not familiar with the new testament you should read it as it was a new covenant between man and God.

Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Again old testament, and if your not familiar with the new testament you should read it as it was a new covenant between man and God.

It's always funny to see how people tend to discard the old testament as if it was a mistake of some sort... it's part of your religion, accept it.

Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.

That is not the reason why they don't believe in it though. Watch out for fallacies.
Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

Again old testament,


1) Part of the Bible.
2) Done by God
3) Jesus ambiguously claims to be God many times.

if your not familiar with the new testament you should read it as it was a new covenant between man and God.


So if a mass murderer suddenly becomes a philanthropist, he shouldn't be punished for the two million or so deaths he directly caused? The vast majority of which were completely uncalled for or were his mistake?

Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.


Atheists are the second most knowledgeable group about religion. Only Jews beat them. Evangelical Christians are among the least knowledgeable.

Article

We know quite well what we're talking about.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

Again old testament

Then why the **** did you bring up Job?
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

^^ Again old testament, and if your not familiar with the new testament you should read it as it was a new covenant between man and God.


Matthew 5:17-18
Even though Jesus specifically states otherwise.
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.


Besides the fact that on average tend to be one of the most knowledge on such matters (as already pointed out), not believing in God doesn't mean not believing anything.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

quote]Again old testament[/quote]
Hebrews 11:32-38, NT, venerates them, saying the world was not worthy of them.

Wyrzen
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Wyrzen
325 posts
Peasant

@Kasic
That was a good mini-article. I may be christian, mormon specifically, but I hate just as much the blind, ignorant, and stubborn Christians out there as much as any atheist.

I'll give them it's a little harder to prove a religious point than to disprove it, but really. They're mostly just retarded. It saddens me to share a common religion with, if I may generalize, such homophonic, intolerant, blind and 'shove down your throat' people.

But, I may add, atheists can be just as hard-headed and stubborn as the blind believers, who give christianity a bad name....religion in general.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

But, I may add, atheists can be just as hard-headed and stubborn as the blind believers, who give christianity a bad name....religion in general.


It's hard headed to ask for reasonable evidence?
thebluerabbit
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thebluerabbit
5,340 posts
Farmer

Just goes to show that most people who do not believe in anything have no knowledge of what they don't believe.


actually, from what ive noticed its the non-believers who know more about most religions then those who believe in them.

and in my opinion EVERY christian who cant read and understand hebrew knows less then 50% of his own religion. its really funny how those who are the most "dedicated" to their religion know the least
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