let us say there could be places like heaven and hell...
..what would happen with people who can not believe after they die? what happens with people who never had the chance to believe anything after they died? what happens with people who forgot that there is a god (altzheimers) or people who are mentally handicapped or people in a coma when they die?
my point is that believe can not be the only "thing" that decides wether they get into heaven or hell (if these places even exist).
actually, from what ive noticed its the non-believers who know more about most religions then those who believe in them.
Which is funny because it's definitely the opposite.
It's hard headed to ask for reasonable evidence?
No, I think it is perfectly reasonable to ask for evidence. That's the whole debate, wanting evidence. I just don't like how sometimes goes about. But there's a difference between asking or requiring evidence, versus demanding you whip your God out of your back pocket or proclaiming your own personal jihad like a few do.
Which is funny because it's definitely the opposite.
Except it's not, and here's why:
Nonbelievers who argue against religion research it so they can make valid points.
Believers rarely delve deeply into their own religion, believing themselves to already be right. They only do moderately well when it comes to mainstream questions which have been drilled into their heads again and again.
But there's a difference between asking or requiring evidence, versus demanding you whip your God out of your back pocket or proclaiming your own personal jihad like a few do.
No one is demanding you make God do something. We only want solid, objective evidence that gives a logical reason to entertain the idea that your specific belief is the right one and that what you claim is plausible.
Except no religion can do that. Personal testimonies and vague interpretations from scripture are all religion has.
Why is God so petty as to decide eternal torment just because His feelings were hurt?
You definetely don't understand the concept that the christian god is a loving one that actually cares about us.. If he gives us that which we need but we don't, and instead use the decision given to us with no obligation to run outside raping people, wouldn't you on his place be seriously offended? And don't be as shallow as to call an offense 'feelings'-we're talking eternal punishment here.
Especially considering omniscience, knowing in advance exactly who would offend Him and where, when, why, and how they would offend Him, then allowing (more specifically "willing" scenario X to occur.
Because, as already stated, he gives us the choice to carry out the action and accepts it.
God still was the one to set up the system so that would be the outcome.
No person is obliged to go to hell, you know?
How would that make it a concentration camp?
Being taken someplace by force.
This God seems pretty thin skinned and petty if he get's offended for eternity because, for example someone picked up sticks on the wrong day. or the worst thing you can possibly do, deny him. With also makes him sound like an egomaniac on top of it all.
Thing is, he doesn't. The problem with most people is that they think that god will never forgive them. Wrong. There is a funny little thing called 'being repentant'. If someone doesn't want to be forgiven- as shown through his actions-, then how the heck does he want god to forgive him?
So he is making the final decision of whether you are deserving of hell?
You definetely don't understand the concept that the christian god is a loving one that actually cares about us.. If he gives us that which we need but we don't, and instead use the decision given to us with no obligation to run outside raping people, wouldn't you on his place be seriously offended? And don't be as shallow as to call an offense 'feelings'-we're talking eternal punishment here.
Stop seeing the eternal punishment thing as a necessary constant. God set up the system, he can change it. It's up to him and his hurt feelings.
Speaking of which, I tihnk you don't get the principle of an all-loving deity. All-loving means his love is unconditional, which is often said about god's love for us. But if his love is unconditional, he would just say, "here, do whatever you want, I still love you and won't put you to hell for doing nasty stuff". If he is loving, he has no need to "be offended", as you put it (which is putting humans feeling on a seemingly non-human deity btw). If he gets offended by people doing nasty stuff, why did he give us free will? He has to know some people will offend him, he supposedly created us after all. So he knows by giving us free will he will have to put people to hell. This doesn't make any sense.
But if his love is unconditional, he would just say, "here, do whatever you want, I still love you and won't put you to hell for doing nasty stuff".
That would be a God that thinks 'I don't care about you, do as you may'.
If he is loving, he has no need to "be offended", as you put it (which is putting humans feeling on a seemingly non-human deity btw).
I assume you are a guy? If you have a girlfriend and you give her your utmost love, and suddenly she 'cheats' on you, wouldn't you be offended?
If he gets offended by people doing nasty stuff, why did he give us free will?
Exactly! Because he loves us!
He has to know some people will offend him, he supposedly created us after all. So he knows by giving us free will he will have to put people to hell. This doesn't make any sense.
Thing is, he made humans to be perfect. As impossible as it may seem, it must be possible to be perfect back, right? And you reach that perfection in heaven, away from sin. While you are on Earth, you are given the choice. Of course, most choose the 'nice' path of going to hell.
You definetely don't understand the concept that the christian god is a loving one that actually cares about us..
All loving God eternally punishes billions of his followers who were made imperfectly.
Ayup. That's love for you.
we're talking eternal punishment here.
Exactly. Eternal. Let's think for a second. You're going to be punished, forever, because you didn't think God was real? Because you made a few mistakes in life?
No one here is opposed to punishment. There is, however, such a thing as fitting the punishment to the crime. No finite set of crimes could EVER warrant eternal torture.
If you have a girlfriend and you give her your utmost love, and suddenly she 'cheats' on you, wouldn't you be offended?
There's a difference between being offended and flipping out like a psychotic person and torturing your ex-girlfriend to death because she cheated on you.
Exactly! Because he loves us!
"Love me or I punish you forever."
Thing is, he made humans to be perfect.
No, he made two adult-babies and left their eternal ****ation inside of a fruit on a tree he specifically pointed out to them. What do you ****ing expect to happen if you leave two people ENTIRELY UNAWARE OF GOOD AND EVIL alone and let something else tell them that it was okay to eat said fruit that had absolutely no reason to be there?
