Forums → WEPR → [nec]Christianity vs Atheism

Usually it's the theist who doesn't have even a basic understanding of these theories that lump them together, not atheists.

I'm not saying that atheists lump them together, I'm saying they're not connected but evolutionism is one the one hand for life and the big bang is on the other hand for cosmology, if that makes any sense.

Evolution isn't an -ism. This is an archaic term often used by creationists to try and make it seem like a belief system rather then a scientific theory.

This is what I get for learning from debates.

Actually we did, just not modern day monkeys.

Yes, but modern day monkeys evolved from this older monkey, and so did we humans, therefore it is a common ancestor. The ancient monkey is different from the modern monkey. Shall I just call it a primate? Sorry, but here it just seems like you're nitpicking.

I'm not saying that atheists lump them together, I'm saying they're not connected but evolutionism is one the one hand for life and the big bang is on the other hand for cosmology, if that makes any sense.

I agree with you there and much of your post, just pointing out a few details is all.

The reason I commented is this.

atheists will believe simultaneously in evolutionism and the big bang to explain the beginning of the universe

Yes, but modern day monkeys evolved from this older monkey, and so did we humans, therefore it is a common ancestor. The ancient monkey is different from the modern monkey. Shall I just call it a primate? Sorry, but here it just seems like you're nitpicking.

I suppose it is a bit of nitpicking but so was the rest of my post really.

Of course in most translations you will find of the Old Testament, this pluralized form will be replaced with the singular word God.

To: Mage, Now there you go again lumping all Christians into the same church again. You we have more denominations than we can spell correctly so cut the old country gal a break.
What's this? Mage using generalizations? Now you of people who know the scriptures about as well as I do know the difference between translating the Hebrew into Greek and Transliterating the Hebrew into modern English that we speak today? Now, apologize to all of those half-blind, half-starved monks of ancient, Midieval times who perhaps wrote thou instead of thee too much in the old Testament! Shame on you, you know they were working by a single candle that they had probably made themselves.

You also know you're my best (why do you have to be )Atheist friend!

Yes, Frank, you're my second best (&quotAtheist friend.



To: Hypermnestra, (I hope I spelled your signature correctly?)
Welcome! We haven't met so I'll introduce myself. I'm Wajor59, but you may call me Jan. I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. No, I don't have any proof of his existence, just my testimony. I appear once or twice a month to see which part of the vortex the conversation is swirling towards. As I see it, my faith is my personal business. I know I'm a different, much calmer person than I was in my late twenties but a lot of folks mellow with age.
I am not your average Christian so please respect me as an individual and I will respect you. I will be happy to look up anything from the Christian Bible, American Standard, King James, New King James,(NKJ), New International Version,(NIV), and help to break down the sentences by how the Stong's Concordence does by using both the Hebrew translations and the Greek and Roman Transliterations.


Now, what exactly are we trying to translate/transliterate? Can we possibly do this before sun rise, EST?

how is this thread not locked yet.

Because it's managed to stay on topic.

To: Mage, Now there you go again lumping all Christians into the same church again.

Where do I generalize? Most translations of the Bible did replace the pluralized form of Gods for the singular wording. That has nothing to do with lumping the various denominations together as one. If I was lumping it all together I wouldn't have used the word 'most'.

You also know you're my best (why do you have to be )Atheist friend!

I've outlined what it will take to get me to believe in God several times. :P

I just laugh when I read threads like this, most creationists fail to recognize that most atheists and other non believers were once creationists so we know what you believe already, you can't change our minds, we know your side of the story. You almost never see a creationist that used to be an atheist arguing over who's right.

Actually this is a VERY interesting point. As I've quite poorly said in yet another (now locked) thread, religious people are ignorant to logic.
I used to be... half-Christian, I didn't necessarily beleive in him, but I was idling from that and the Scientific side, I am blatantly atheist now though. Don't get me wrong - if I truly die and I really do see "God" or an Angel, I may believe in it, but it rules by fear, believe it or not, you be good because if not you will burn in eternal hell, or you do it on a more... "greedy" side, looking for heaven, you can't wait to get there. Or simply you became a convert after something bad happened to you and the so-called &quotower" of God / Allah / Christ etc helped "enlighten" you.
But in the end, there is little to no evidence (no proof at all) to help confirm this, now, if you look at say... The Big Bang, it all adds up much easier and more firmly.
I am rather sketchy on the this-and-that on the Big Bang, but that is not the case given this argument (since I have researched it and have an interest in astronomy).

You, have not decided just once, to throw it all away for a few minutes and think "What if", not once. Why? Because that's how it was intended to be, these stories, they're meant to be planted into you as a young person so as you grow up it will become a way of life, which is actually VERY cruel, because you're essentially brain washing them.
Now I know what you could be thinking, "it's vice versa". Wrong. I was raised to never believe what people said unless given proper proof or sufficient evidence to support their, theories, decisions, thoughts, etc. Now while I was raised to believe the scientific side, let's put forth the term "fear" in Science, where is fear, in Science?
2012 - This is simply sudo science, whilst the media may put this in proper science channels is very simply stupid. The Mayans, whilst possessing an advanced calender, could not tell the future, could not see a Supermassive Black Hole in the center of the galaxy, Neburu (or however you spell it) has never been seen, you can take a picture of the sun and the cheaper the phone, the more it'll appear, LOL
Not true, I don't have to say more really do I?

2012 Is Sudo Science, and that creates fear, it's not Science so that's out of the park. If you wanna know more about 2012, ask me or research it more indepth from a proper science channel / podcast (Pamela Gay is one of many).

Now, any other fear stricken movements? Let's say a meteor is going to hit the planet - who cares honestly? I am not trying to drive fear away, ultimately it will cause fear, but in the end it could give us preparation to do something about it, if we didn't, the world would end and done with. Essentially, why people are so afraid of things like this is beyond me, it won't be painful if you die, I doubt the nuke in Hiroshima was painful.. okay, let me rephrase that. The people who were in the blast, weren't in pain, I could imagine, it would be very quickly done.
Not only that, but it's often the mass hysteria caused by people which is what makes it seem so bad in the first place.

Other than this, I cannot think of any more fear-striking situations in which people can get fear from, it's about exploration, discovering, researching, cool stuff to see (TV's, PS3's, Xboxes, Games, all made by what most people will call "nerds", actually they don't call them nerds, but if they knew how smart they are, they probably would).


Now look at religion. Well, actually look at this link at Dave Allen on Religion, you mays well really:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk

He's funny. But it also shows one of the points - fear. It scares children the way they put it, not just that, but it confuses them. I don't know about you but when I tell people to trust me in my school, they trust me, simply because I am more intelligent than them (I am not exaggerating), if I explain it to them, they'd just interrupt and say "Oh-oh-alright okay okay. Bloody hell just do it.", lol. It's probably that they see me with it all figured out and simply want to leave me to it, I don't know. But that really could be why they believe it.

Anyway, if you want to know about Big Bang or 2012 or whatnot, you should research it, and not just Wikipedia since that is open to everyone to edit, so it could be some ignorant person who thinks the world is going to end.

Sorry for the speech. And I hope I helped prove mine and others points.

In the end: Why would God want you to be blind to anything else? That doesn't seem very right now does it? If say he was real, then he should see that are smart and he shouldn't be such a cryptic douchebag, to put it straight. Give a flat out message, a frequency like the Bloop (go on, research it on Wikipedia ) but "translated" says he is there, lightning bolts spelling out the same thing. If he's creative enough to make 600,000 strands of human DNA per human, he should be able to easily do this.

Goodbye, and may your god go with you.

- H

2012 - This is simply sudo science, whilst the media may put this in proper science channels is very simply stupid.

Actually the Mayan calender isn't foretelling some sort of prophecy but simply ending a very long cycle. Think of it like one of our years ending and a new one starting, just much longer.

Link fixed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxo81Ok9Urk

I've seen that clip before pretty good one. Quite true as well I can't count the number of stories of my moms from when she went to Catholic school and the nuns used fear tactics.
Though one things for sure God's PR guys are doing one hell of a job. I mean this dude manages to commit global genocide through a rather torturous method and send everyone to burn for eternity and still get labeled as all loving and benevolent.

To: Hypermnestra, (I hope I spelled your signature correctly?)

You spelled it correctly, and I'm glad to see someone else who actually cares about spelling. Grammar Nazism for the win!

Welcome! We haven't met so I'll introduce myself. I'm Wajor59, but you may call me Jan.

Hi, Jan.

I believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. No, I don't have any proof of his existence, just my testimony.

It's not like I ask every Christian I meet to prove the truth of the bible, otherwise I would've been lynched or something long ago, lol. And truly, your testimony is good enough for you, and that's really all you need to prove, right? I mean, you're the one believing, not me, so if your testimony and the word of the Bible is enough for you, then good for you.

I appear once or twice a month to see which part of the vortex the conversation is swirling towards.

Interesting choice of words.

As I see it, my faith is my personal business.

Of course. If you want to talk about your beliefs, then good for you, and if you don't, that's also your choice.

I know I'm a different, much calmer person than I was in my late twenties but a lot of folks mellow with age.

I see. Shall I call you Mr. Mellow then? xP.

I am not your average Christian so please respect me as an individual and I will respect you.

OMG CRISTIN!!!!!! U BELEIVE IN SOME STOOPID OLD BOOK!!!! Nah, I'm just kidding. Of course I am going to respect you. Just from this paragraph alone, I have gained respect for you thanks purely to your grammar. I think that if I disrespected every Christian, I wouldn't have any friends in real life. Also; I think you kind of just accidentally insulted half my friends in a roundabout way with your "I'm not an average Christian" line(though some of them are Mormons as well, and Catholics). For example, one of my best friends is the son of a pastor.

I will be happy to look up anything from the Christian Bible, American Standard, King James, New King James,(NKJ), New International Version,(NIV), and help to break down the sentences by how the Stong's Concordence does by using both the Hebrew translations and the Greek and Roman Transliterations.

*nods*. Okaaaay....I'm totally going to pretend I understood over half of this paragraph >.> Lol.

I think Jesus beats down the idea God not existing.

How do you figure that? Are you arguing that the story of Jesus proves the existence of God?

I haven't read any of this post, cause, quite frankly, I don't have the patience to read 300 pages of threads.

Usually with large threads it's best to at least read the OP and the last few pages to get an idea of how the topic started and where it's currently at.