Forums → WEPR → [nec]Christianity vs Atheism
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I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.
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In short. Christians and Atheists--from those that I've talked to--seem to be rather steadfast in their beliefs. (Yes, I know that's a pretty big generalization.) I think this argument is pretty much a perpetual stale-mate.
When it comes to decision making using the information from places like these types of debates it's often more then 'fence sitter' who benefits the most in that regard.
But as I have said I'm totally willing to accept that a God exists just offer conclusive evidence for your deities existence.
I too would be willing to switch to Christianity if conclusive proof of God is offered to me. And yes, I forgot about the fence-sitters - they do tend to benefit from these types of discussion. As do the 'weak' Christians and Atheists who aren't really sure about what they believe but just have a general idea.
One has to be right and one has to be wrong.
Sure, but making knowledge claims about this seems to many to be epistemically irresponsible. What's interesting is that I, as an atheist, will never truly be able to claim knowledge that I'm right. Because if I am right, then I will simply cease to exist when I die. If I'm wrong, then I'll know that because I'll be in hell or something.
But we can still debate about whether or not theistic belief (or Christian belief) is justified. I think this is something that will eventually be solved - if only by mere stipulation.
I think I would be willing to accept there is a god if some proof was shown, but even then, my mind works in the way that goes "maybe this is all a big con, maybe Im crazy, maybe the christians were right when they said a deciever will come down and pretend to be our god" etc...
I still have fears that I am wrong in saying "there is no christian god", thats kinda pushed on you from an early age in school, almost regardless of where you are. Lucky for me my parents are not like that, they take a more spiritual view of things, as do I.
I would say if there IS some kind of god, then its nothing like we imagine and the whole earth is very wrong in all of its religious ways.
As for the Vs, well since Atheism says there is NO god, and christianity says there IS... well its a bit like red vs blue.
Either way I accept there is no answer to be GIVEN to people, but I certainly come away with answers, even if its after I make my pig headed opinions known and perhaps refuse to budge.
It sometimes takes weeks for an idea to fully sink in.
Yet, there's another problem with what you're saying here. What is conclusive evidence to to one is isn't the same as conclusive evidence to another. You don't offer what you mean by "conclusive evidence." And something tells me that you're not as willing as you say. I get the feeling that you come into this debate ready to...well debate! Even with a well-thought and convincing argument, I get the feeling that you would be more than ready to defend your position. This isn't a bad thing...in fact it's good. You're a bigger person than most for inviting others to a friendly debacle, rather than just openly shooting them down before they can talk...er...or type.
Your right I am willing to defend my position. I'm also willing to accept I may be wrong.
As for what is conclusive evidence this is evidence that is testable and can be independently verified.
Best evidence to get me to believe in God would be for him to show himself to me claiming to be the God of the Bible. He could take any form he likes, burning bush, bearded white robed guy, George Burns doesn't matter. Now to verify this was God we could go down to the nearest lab, set up a controlled environment and have him create matter/energy. Wouldn't have to be much even a few basic particles would be fine, that shouldn't be to much to ask from the guy who created everything.
He did that I'd believe him.
This video outlines a lot of what I would also accept.
How to Convert an Atheist Part 1
How to Convert an Atheist Part 2
Though verified specific prophecies or knowledge of things they wouldn't otherwise have might not be quite enough given we would have to rule out the possibility of something like time travel, but would give credible weight to the text.
Also aliens having the same belief wouldn't do it for me either as this could be just circumstantial and the possibility that Jesus was an alien has been raised in the past.
Another thing would be physical evidence of a seemingly impossible event such as a geological layer around the entire globe indicating the existence of a global flood would due.
Also maybe someone can come up with some form of evidence I hadn't thought of that could be equally impressive.
Yes I am demanding incredible evidence for an incredible claim before believing it.
But look at what has been presented.
Vein attempts to disprove a scientific theory, while offering nothing to the God claim.
Bible says so because God wrote it because the Bible says so...etc.
No proof, just believe and it will be real then.
A banana, a jar of peanut butter, a crockaduck, and a pine cone walk into a church...
I suppose it is a bit of nitpicking but so was the rest of my post really.
Eh, *shrug*. It's always nice to have someone correct you, I think, because otherwise how will you know when you are wrong?
I think I would be willing to accept there is a god if some proof was shown, but even then, my mind works in the way that goes "maybe this is all a big con, maybe Im crazy, maybe the christians were right when they said a deciever will come down and pretend to be our god" etc...
I still have fears that I am wrong in saying "there is no christian god", thats kinda pushed on you from an early age in school, almost regardless of where you are. Lucky for me my parents are not like that, they take a more spiritual view of things, as do I.
I would say if there IS some kind of god, then its nothing like we imagine and the whole earth is very wrong in all of its religious ways.
As for the Vs, well since Atheism says there is NO god, and christianity says there IS... well its a bit like red vs blue.
Either way I accept there is no answer to be GIVEN to people, but I certainly come away with answers, even if its after I make my pig headed opinions known and perhaps refuse to budge.
It sometimes takes weeks for an idea to fully sink in.
Judging from that, I'd say you're actually more of an agnostic than an atheist.
So wait, let me clarify something. Is this thread just atheists talking to other atheists and agnostics about atheism and agnosticism? I've seen one Christian in the thread so far, and he didn't even debate. Lol.
boy i miss the times when 12 year olds were plowing feilds and milkin cows
Judging from that, I'd say you're actually more of an agnostic than an atheist.
I'm an agnostic atheist.
I don't claim knowledge of a supreme deity (agnostic) and given the current evidence I don't claim to believe such a being exists (atheist).
I wish more Christians would turn up and debate. This thread seems to be going stale with a pool of Agnosticism and Atheism without anybody to debate against.
Yes, seeing as how everybody is born Atheist - we deconverted them. Although I suspect many have just given up on trying to convert us after this long.
hey avorne. the bible rocks, if you had a book to blindly follow i would say it totally does not rock, but you don't. ha.
If by the Bible rocks then you mean that it advocates stoning of everybody from gays to children then yes it does 'rock'
Yes, seeing as how everybody is born Atheist - we deconverted them.
Deconversion (Born again atheist) :P
Although I suspect many have just given up on trying to convert us after this long.
And after I created an entire post that includes two videos on how they can do just that as well.
And after I created an entire post that includes two videos on how they can do just that as well.
You should know by now... Christians ignore anything that has the potential to bring them out of ignorance.
And I think you scared them all away, mage. Now I have nothing to do in my spare time... Good going...
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