I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.
And there's the thing - religion does bring problems. Why not just be Atheistic in your beliefs? After all, there are no downsides to it. As you pointed out - you don't need religion for socializing, morals, etc. and so it serves no real purpose.
Because drinking brings problems to, and people still do so because they wish to socialize or to relieve stress. There's alternatives to drinking, but people still do it. Same goes for everything, and in a sense there's a downside to everything.
Like I said, there are a lot of positive things you get from religion as well.
I've been to church before. I've heard things that made me want to bash my face against the wall. I've even walked out in the middle of the mass because I couldn't stand listening to such vague lessons. However, there is no denying that the people who attended that mass were happy. They were there for each other and they were very caring towards their own family and friends and even strangers. There are some things many of them thought that bothered me, opinions on those who don't believe in God and such, but they don't go through lengths to hurt atheists, they simply look down on them. That is all, they don't treat them any worse. The worst your average theist does to an atheist is pity them.
Many people in this world want to think there is someone watching out for them. They want to believe there is an afterlife because they are insecure. Just because you can handle the thought doesn't mean everyone can. I forget if it was someone from the League of Reason or some other atheist group, but despite my respect for them, one guy said something that proved how arrogant atheists can be at times. They were discussing death and he laughed at people who thought it would be horrible to just stop existing, and when questioned he replied "I would feel the same way as I did before I was born." Sure, he may have been right to think that, but to laugh at people who fear death is pig headed.
Death is a scary thing, and religion helps people cope. Sure, many people get over the idea that they rot away without a soul, but you can't assume everyone can handle such a thought, because everyone is different. Just because you can do something doesn't mean someone else can.
Have you not heard the story of the fox and the grapes? The moral of the story is that you must sometimes lie to yourself to get past your troubles. Find the story yourself if you don't know what I'm talking about, it's not long.
I understand the fear of that which we do not understand and the fear of pain and isolation. And i'm quiet happy for people to hold whichever beliefs they like about what happens when we die.
Anyway, the thing I dislike is organized religion. Think about it, you are bound to a set of beliefs without openness - if a being such as God existed then I don't believe he'd want his flock to be sheep - the Bible (amongst other holy books) teaches that God loves each one of his children and in return (I would assume) He would want each of his children to love him back on a personal level. Organized religion closes people off, to some extent, from God and from science.
Good thing most scientists are either atheists, or they study fields where God and Science don't collide. The few scientists who try to disprove things such as evolution are few.
Think about it, you are bound to a set of beliefs without openness - if a being such as God existed then I don't believe he'd want his flock to be sheep - the Bible (amongst other holy books) teaches that God loves each one of his children and in return (I would assume) He would want each of his children to love him back on a personal level.
This is YOUR rationalization.
It is believed by some Christians that those who don't know of God will go to heaven because they never had a chance to learn about him. Those who learned about God or were warned about God will go to hell if they don't worship him.
Many atheists were once theists themselves. They should remember how hard it was for them to transition from theist to atheist. It can be maddening and depressing.
It's ironic that an atheist would push a theist through such a phase. The difference between most atheists and most theists is that the theists pushed for the truth. They decided for themselves that they would seek answers, even if they didn't like them. We should not force theists to seek answers they do not wish to learn.
I'm not against atheists speaking out, but I am against them when they actually seek theists and try to convert them. That, in my opinion, is as bad as what theists do when they damn us to hell by warning us of God, rather than letting us remain ignorant of God and allowing us happiness in heaven.
And there's another concept that annoys me... Hell. Supposedly reserved for scum that are pure evil yet you go there just for not believing in a God? I could help the community until my fingers bled and I fell to the floor and yet I still would never have a place in Heaven? That really doesn't seem fair for a benevolent and loving creator.
And there's another concept that annoys me... Hell. Supposedly reserved for scum that are pure evil yet you go there just for not believing in a God? I could help the community until my fingers bled and I fell to the floor and yet I still would never have a place in Heaven? That really doesn't seem fair for a benevolent and loving creator.
Yes - but if He exists and exists in the way that most Christians see Him then I'm heading straight to Hell. After all, I'm an Atheist but I can't rule out categorically all other possibilities.
Yes - but if He exists and exists in the way that most Christians see Him then I'm heading straight to Hell. After all, I'm an Atheist but I can't rule out categorically all other possibilities.
So you wish to convert people to atheism so they will suffer eternal damnation?
I'm not debating whether God exists or even if he's moral. I'm debating whether it's a noble goal to attempt to exterminate as much of religion as possible.
No, I'm not even particularly fond of the idea of 'converting' someone. I'd like to point out the flaws in their beliefs but I wouldn't particularly want to tell them that they had to believe what I told them.
One of them mentioned that it was like saying a drunk is happier than a sober man, which is not necessarily true, and I agree with this. In the same regard, a sober man is not necessarily happier than a drunk man. It's just not comparable.
Considering we can say the same between theism and atheism it would seem they are comparable.
Death is a scary thing, and religion helps people cope. Sure, many people get over the idea that they rot away without a soul, but you can't assume everyone can handle such a thought, because everyone is different. Just because you can do something doesn't mean someone else can.
Well the nice thing to consider about our minds just being physical is that it gives us the possibility to do something about it and overcome this issue.
It is believed by some Christians that those who don't know of God will go to heaven because they never had a chance to learn about him. Those who learned about God or were warned about God will go to hell if they don't worship him.
"If I wasn't in danger of going to hell if I wasn't told, then why did you tell me?" -I don't know
I think this quote illustrates the flaw in this logic quite well.
Many atheists were once theists themselves. They should remember how hard it was for them to transition from theist to atheist. It can be maddening and depressing.
But ultimately freeing, as pointed out in the video clip I posted. You don't really hear of an atheist saying "I wish I could have faith and believe again".
They decided for themselves that they would seek answers, even if they didn't like them. We should not force theists to seek answers they do not wish to learn.
As I said on an individual basis if you want to live in ignorance fine, but it's when this goes beyond the individual into the group think that it becomes a problem. Religion is a group think.
As I said on an individual basis if you want to live in ignorance fine, but it's when this goes beyond the individual into the group think that it becomes a problem. Religion is a group think.
Wow... wouldn't this be the same with atheism based on your logic? Atheism is a group think also. Multiple individuals getting together to conversate on the flaws in religion. How does that differentiate with what you have stated about religion? Religions are the same, most commune to discuss the flawed life lived without religion. I have one quick question also, wouldn't atheism be categorized as a religious group? Ex. Anarchy: The idea of no government, but with no government there is a government. The government of the people, know as a people's government.
I can't believe this thread is still active. What's up with that my individual atheist Mage? Oh, look a new comer to the thread, welcome Avorne.
Wow... wouldn't this be the same with atheism based on your logic? Atheism is a group think also.
Not in the same sense as religions. When was the last time your neighborhood atheists knocked on your door and told you all sorts of horrible things would happen to you for eternity unless you adopted their way of thinking? When was the last time atheists started a war because people didn't believe they were right? When was the last time atheists tried to have proven scientific knowledge tossed out of our schools because it disagreed with their philosophy?
The issue here is that religion has a habit of trying to impose itself on people that don't want it, and it does so in manners that defy all of its basic tenets. It is hypocrisy in its purest form.
If you want to believe in an invisible man in the sky, go for it. But don't push your delusions on me, and don't try to use your science fiction books to determine what my children are going to learn.
The issue here is that religion has a habit of trying to impose itself on people that don't want it, and it does so in manners that defy all of its basic tenets. It is hypocrisy in its purest form.
I really don't mean to sound like an a'', but you comment was hypocritical also. Atheistic beliefs have been imposed on individuals, just as religious beliefs have been also. You can't tell one side and not the other.
If you want to believe in an invisible man in the sky, go for it. But don't push your delusions on me, and don't try to use your science fiction books to determine what my children are going to learn.
This comment on it's on shows the hypocritical stature that you act upon yourself. You criticize me for believing the man in the sky, yet you feel I should not criticize you for not? Delusions? You describe my beliefs and the belief of billions of other people as if they are merely some vision we had in an intoxicated daze. You describe me as a hypocrite, and you are criticizing me? How about you go read a child's fiction tale and tell me of how it's too advanced for your intellectual capacity to obtain.
I really don't mean to sound like an a'', but you comment was hypocritical also. Atheistic beliefs have been imposed on individuals, just as religious beliefs have been also. You can't tell one side and not the other.
We don't have laws giving our priests tax cuts, witch end up costing nonreligious people money. We don't make laws that are based only on our religious belief. We don't keep people, such as homosexuals, from marrying who they wish. Basically you see no laws forcing atheism yet several promoting religion...
This comment on it's on shows the hypocritical stature that you act upon yourself. You criticize me for believing the man in the sky, yet you feel I should not criticize you for not? Delusions? You describe my beliefs and the belief of billions of other people as if they are merely some vision we had in an intoxicated daze. You describe me as a hypocrite, and you are criticizing me? How about you go read a child's fiction tale and tell me of how it's too advanced for your intellectual capacity to obtain.
He is not being a hypocrite. He said to quit trying to impose your belief on others, not criticize. Feel free to criticize all you want, a good theory can stand a barrage of stones.
And, for the record, it may have not been made by you while intoxicated but the people who wrote the book used necrotic, such as one found in a tree named several times in the Bible, for ceremonies. Said narcotics have been seen to have an effect of the people under its influence see religious icons, aliens, and the such. Seeing angles would be quite normal under its effect.
Necrotic is a sub-name for the skin disease necrosis. I don't believe that gets one very intoxicated.
When was the last time your neighborhood atheists knocked on your door and told you all sorts of horrible things would happen to you for eternity unless you adopted their way of thinking? When was the last time atheists started a war because people didn't believe they were right? When was the last time atheists tried to have proven scientific knowledge tossed out of our schools because it disagreed with their philosophy? The issue here is that religion has a habit of trying to impose itself on people that don't want it, and it does so in manners that defy all of its basic tenets. It is hypocrisy in its purest form. If you want to believe in an invisible man in the sky, go for it. But don't push your delusions on me, and don't try to use your science fiction books to determine what my children are going to learn.
If you don't call this hypocrisy, then what is it?
