ForumsWEPR[nec]Christianity vs Atheism

3094 504739
kiddslayer12
offline
kiddslayer12
70 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.

  • 3,094 Replies
Kody
offline
Kody
60 posts
Nomad

Except Jesus condemned the Pharisees for being willing to stone the adulterer in the NT. And besides, the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill".

Avorne
offline
Avorne
3,087 posts
Nomad

Really? Tell that to the Roman Catholics. They assert that it's 'thou shalt not kill'.

NoNameC68
offline
NoNameC68
5,045 posts
Shepherd

While I don't think it's how you intended it, but this argument is often used as a means to justify an immoral act clearly condoned by the Bible (by both new and old testaments) as being moral.


And who are the people who do this?

I just want to talk about the texts that truly do cause controversy. Texts that people do follow. Not the ones that everybody avoids. What is in the bible and what the bible ends up teaching are two different things. Anyway, I'm still not sold on the whole slavery thing yet.

The problems with theists generally comes from what they are taught, not what they read.

I'm sick of hearing about the bible because the bible, which may or may not be BS, doesn't really influence people in such a negative way. If theists were trying to push for slavery, then I think we should worry about the bible being dangerous.
314d1
offline
314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Except Jesus condemned the Pharisees for being willing to stone the adulterer in the NT. And besides, the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill".


Its one of the many contradictions in the Bible, here are some places where it obviously orders stoning.

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16

(That one applies to me, anyone here want to stone me?)

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10

So don't feel alone, everybody must get stoned...

Not to mention Jesus killing the fig tree for it not producing fruit out of season, witch proves even the new books are screwed up.
HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

And besides, the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder" not "Thou shalt not kill".

lol... Things like that enabled the crusades, christians didn't see it as a crime, yet it was one.
It's just open to too much interpretation.
thepossum
offline
thepossum
3,037 posts
Nomad

The Bibe specifically states that slaveowners go to Hell in Timothy 1:8-11.

Kody
offline
Kody
60 posts
Nomad

@314: All OT references. Yes, it was tough back then, but the Resurrection changed the severity of the law. And the fig tree not producing fruit wasn't a fit of rage, it was symbolic that a useless tree is the same as a lazy Christian who doesn't do any work for the Lord.

@HahiHa: Greed and ignorance enabled the Crusades. And Christians believing that killing is wrong doesn't make any sense. What about all the Christians that supported and fought in the Revolutionary War?

HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

No, they don't if they repent. So they can live a happy slaveowner's life and repent on their death bed. Good deal eh?

314d1
offline
314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I just want to talk about the texts that truly do cause controversy. Texts that people do follow. Not the ones that everybody avoids. What is in the bible and what the bible ends up teaching are two different things. Anyway, I'm still not sold on the whole slavery thing yet.


Exodus 21:2
'When you purchase a Hebrew slave...'

Exodus 21:2
'...his service will last for six years.'

Exodus 21:2,4
'In the seventh year he will leave a free man. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and children will belong to the master, and he will depart alone.'

Exodus 21:20
'If someone beats his slave...'

Exodus 21:20
'...and the slave dies at his hands...'

Exodus 21:20
'...he shall certainly be avenged.'



Exodus 21:21
'But should the slave survive for one day or two...'

Exodus 21:21
'...he will pay no penalty because the slave is his owner's property.'

And here are the better ones

1 Timothy 6:1, Ephesians 6:5
All those who are under the yoke of slavery must have utmost regard for their master. Obey your earthly masters with respect, fear, and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Ephesians 6:6
...but like slaves of Christ. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord.

Titus 2:9
Slaves are to be obedient to their masters in all matters, and do what is wanted without argument.

1 Peter 2:18
Slaves, obey your masters in all fear, not only those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are cruel.

1 Corinthians 7:21
Were you a slave when called? Do not have any concern over it. If you have a chance to become free...

1 Corinthians 7:21, 24
...you should make the most of your slavery instead*. Whatever situation someone was in when called, let him remain in it with God.


*Note:A literal translation of 1 Corinthians 7:21 would be "A slave when called? Do not have any concern over it. If you can become free, rather use [it]."
MRWalker82
offline
MRWalker82
4,005 posts
Shepherd

Yes, it was tough back then, but the Resurrection changed the severity of the law.


No, it didn't. It even clearly states that in the Bible, and Jesus himself said that the new covenant was not an elimination of OT law. Read the Bible.

And Christians believing that killing is wrong doesn't make any sense. What about all the Christians that supported and fought in the Revolutionary War?


That was part of my point. The Bible tells us "thou shalt not kill" and then it lists hundreds of places where killing was acceptable, yet it gives us no guideline for how to determine when killing is accepted although clearly there are such instances.
Kody
offline
Kody
60 posts
Nomad

Unless their death bed was the kitchen table. Or the middle of the road. Or at the market. Just sayin'.

thepossum
offline
thepossum
3,037 posts
Nomad

Repenting only counts if they are truly sorry for having had slaves.

HahiHa
offline
HahiHa
8,254 posts
Regent

Repenting only counts if they are truly sorry for having had slaves.

People change over time, they can be the most wealthy slaveowner in early ages, and be awfully sorry about it when they get old. Does it make it better? No.
314d1
offline
314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

@314: All OT references. Yes, it was tough back then, but the Resurrection changed the severity of the law. And the fig tree not producing fruit wasn't a fit of rage, it was symbolic that a useless tree is the same as a lazy Christian who doesn't do any work for the Lord.


Killing something for symbolism is still killing.

Didn't Jesus say the old was still in effect?
Kody
offline
Kody
60 posts
Nomad

No, it didn't. It even clearly states that in the Bible, and Jesus himself said that the new covenant was not an elimination of OT law. Read the Bible.

Wow, then I suppose I need to go to the nearest temple and go kill a couple hundred sheep then, eh?

That was part of my point. The Bible tells us "thou shalt not kill" and then it lists hundreds of places where killing was acceptable, yet it gives us no guideline for how to determine when killing is accepted although clearly there are such instances.

Once again, kill and murder are not the same thing. You must remember that the Bible was translated from Hebrew to Latin and from Latin to English. The true syntax is obviously murder.

The slave issue is another problem with translation. In biblical context slave may have meant servant in some passages. However it may be like the issue of polygamy, where slavery was already an accepted norm and God created guidelines for it.
Showing 2521-2535 of 3094