Forums → WEPR → [nec]Christianity vs Atheism
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I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.
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Oh yeah, because most Christians own a slave. I agree that the bible is BS, but let's be serious, people don't take the bible as seriously as they think they do. Again, most Christians don't own slaves, I sure as hell don't know any, so why talk about slavery in the bible as if it's actually effecting the way people live?
People use the bible to justify their own actions. People don't follow parts of the bible that they don't agree with. If I supported slavery and quoted the bible, chances are I would support slavery without the bible.
I don't mind if you point out the bible being BS, but again, most theists don't pay attention to the versus that they disagree with.
Wow, then I suppose I need to go to the nearest temple and go kill a couple hundred sheep then, eh?
Yes, in accordance with your religion. I suggest a few burnt offerings.
Once again, kill and murder are not the same thing. You must remember that the Bible was translated from Hebrew to Latin and from Latin to English. The true syntax is obviously murder.
And why would you think that?
The slave issue is another problem with translation. In biblical context slave may have meant servant in some passages. However it may be like the issue of polygamy, where slavery was already an accepted norm and God created guidelines for it.
First, they did have slaves, while servants were more rare. Second, if he was writing rules why could he had not said "And let them go, with no strings attached, the day you get them. Free as many as possible, for freedom is good"?
That was part of my point. The Bible tells us "thou shalt not kill" and then it lists hundreds of places where killing was acceptable, yet it gives us no guideline for how to determine when killing is accepted although clearly there are such instances.
Oh yeah, most Christians are murderers as well. I forgot about that one.
The problem of translation gets to a problem of interpretation, making it mostly inaccurate and unreliable, and I'm not only talking about the slave issue... So why are still so many people basing their beliefs on this?
First, they did have slaves, while servants were more rare. Second, if he was writing rules why could he had not said "And let them go, with no strings attached, the day you get them. Free as many as possible, for freedom is good"?
Because that's simply your opinion, not the opinion of those who wrote the bible.
Understand, I think it's great to find the contradictions in the bible, but we need to remember that most theists ignore these terrible things.
Read through all 260 pages and you will find that most of the people aruing on the side of religion do not support these things and almost deny them. Even though these passages are in the bible, theists live as if they weren't.
So, yeah, there's some problems with religion. I'm just saying that we need to be realistic and not make the bible the root of all evil.
The problem of translation gets to a problem of interpretation, making it mostly inaccurate and unreliable, and I'm not only talking about the slave issue... So why are still so many people basing their beliefs on this?
Good question, because people aren't looking for a book of rules to guide their life. They are looking for a being to justify their actions.
I agree that the bible is BS
I resent that.
Yes, in accordance with your religion. I suggest a few burnt offerings.
Then I suppose you sir, are the one who needs to read the Bible. Jesus was the Sacrificial Lamb. A "final offering" if you want. There's no need for burnt offerings or death sentences. I do admit that the stoning issue is one that I am not very informed of. I do agree it is harsh.
First, they did have slaves, while servants were more rare.
Why do you say that? When the Hebrews weren't oppressed themselves they were actually quite wealthy and could easily pay their servants.
Second, if he was writing rules why could he had not said "And let them go, with no strings attached, the day you get them. Free as many as possible, for freedom is good"?
How do you know the slaves were oppressed and abused? This isn't Egypt we're talking about. Although there were few civil and sociological history recorders in those times writing down people's every social interaction, I think it's safe to assume that God-fearing people treated their slaves much better than the average slave owner.
I am aware everyone ignores the parts that they disagree with. I am also aware that they are only used as a tool, since the original creation. "Hey Mosses, why are we wandering the desert again?" "Well...umm...God told you to!"
I am also aware this..."tool" is like a huge Frodo's wring. It controls the minds of some of those who use it, the thing here is that it corrupts some people into killing and convince the next generation to do the same. It makes horrors invisible as long as there wearing this wring.
On a similar note, anyone hear about the ten killed in the middle east? Mostly religious, of course...
Then I suppose you sir, are the one who needs to read the Bible. Jesus was the Sacrificial Lamb. A "final offering" if you want. There's no need for burnt offerings or death sentences. I do admit that the stoning issue is one that I am not very informed of. I do agree it is harsh.
Jee, it was a joke. Probably should make that more obvious in the future... But anyway the sacrifices are the only thing that is stopped. You still have witch burnings, holy wars, etc.
How do you know the slaves were oppressed and abused? This isn't Egypt we're talking about. Although there were few civil and sociological history recorders in those times writing down people's every social interaction, I think it's safe to assume that God-fearing people treated their slaves much better than the average slave owner.
Let me give you an example we all know is cruel. You remember the plantations in the south? They had slaves owned by god-fearing people. Many slaves were treated cruelly. It obviously did not hold true for them.
I am aware everyone ignores the parts that they disagree with. I am also aware that they are only used as a tool, since the original creation. "Hey Mosses, why are we wandering the desert again?" "Well...umm...God told you to!"
...or maybe to escape the oppression of the Egyptians...? Name once when Moses manipulated his people.
I am also aware this..."tool" is like a huge Frodo's wring. It controls the minds of some of those who use it, the thing here is that it corrupts some people into killing and convince the next generation to do the same. It makes horrors invisible as long as there wearing this wring.
I agree to an extent. A lot of people take the Bible out of context and manipulate people for their advantage. Several instances come to mind but the chief example is the Crusades. The goal was noble: retake Jerusalem. The motive and the results were not: Wealth, power, land, and so much death.
...or maybe to escape the oppression of the Egyptians...? Name once when Moses manipulated his people.
I am stating the Bible is the manipulation. It was word of mouth, at first of course, but the story was passed down and mutilated(adding things like him tapping a rock and finding water, it was more probable that he did something like using a divining rod to find water)into myth. Moses had all the power, because he stated that everyone else would be killed if it wasn't for him.
I agree to an extent. A lot of people take the Bible out of context and manipulate people for their advantage. Several instances come to mind but the chief example is the Crusades. The goal was noble: retake Jerusalem. The motive and the results were not: Wealth, power, land, and so much death.
Using that logic, the current day wars are all justified because they are doing the "just" thing of trying to take back Jerusalem(for the Muslims)
Jee, it was a joke. Probably should make that more obvious in the future... But anyway the sacrifices are the only thing that is stopped. You still have witch burnings, holy wars, etc.
Sorry about that, got a little worked up. About witch burnings and holy fires, see my post above.
Let me give you an example we all know is cruel. You remember the plantations in the south? They had slaves owned by god-fearing people. Many slaves were treated cruelly. It obviously did not hold true for them.
And some were treated as family and even hired as workers after the war. And there's a difference between "God-fearing" and "Well, I call myself a Christian because it makes me look good...so yeah, I'm a Christian!" *Guzzles down a bottle of booze and passes out*
Sorry about that, got a little worked up. About witch burnings and holy fires, see my post above.
Read my previous post about stoning witches. How IN HELL could that be taken out of context? The Bible isn't just cruel in context. Its just cruel.
And some were treated as family and even hired as workers after the war. And there's a difference between "God-fearing" and "Well, I call myself a Christian because it makes me look good...so yeah, I'm a Christian!" *Guzzles down a bottle of booze and passes out*
You do realize that many in the south fought the war thinking they were doing gods will, I mean genuinely thinking that? Many of them were cruel to there slaves.
I am stating the Bible is the manipulation. It was word of mouth, at first of course, but the story was passed down and mutilated(adding things like him tapping a rock and finding water, it was more probable that he did something like using a divining rod to find water)into myth. Moses had all the power, because he stated that everyone else would be killed if it wasn't for him.
It was not word of mouth. You are aware that Moses wrote the first several books of the Bible. Key word: wrote.
Using that logic, the current day wars are all justified because they are doing the "just" thing of trying to take back Jerusalem(for the Muslims)
Didn't you read my post? I said the Crusades were bad.
When I said "noble goal" I meant in thought, not action. It was a nice thought, having the city where Biblical events took place in Christian hands, but that's just it: it's a place. It's yet another physical thing that has no value regarding salvation.
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