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kiddslayer12
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kiddslayer12
70 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.

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choazmachine
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choazmachine
1,044 posts
Nomad

Oh, and gravity is a theory.

Nope, fact. For it has been tested millions and millions of times there for 99.9% fact, so I'd go with that. :]

The point of my argument is why does the earth and ball attract each other. Did the ball and earth hold a pow-wow and decide to attraction was the best option. Why don't they repel? Somehow at some point rules were given for nature for nature to follow. I say this has to be done by God.

Oh, if you want to go down that road then:
'The This' pointed at the nothing and said "This is boring", for wich 'The Other' replied "Yeah, let's make a new Something to which who will rule the whole Uniplex!"
Ok, for those who don't understand what Im getting at, 'The This' and 'The Other' are my imaginary Somethings that made God. If God 'made' everything--who made God?

Athiests need to learn to keep to themselves and learn that perhaps they ARE wrong. Yeah christianity may be wrong but if it gives people hope and lets them get on with things let them be. Athiests are far worse than any christians I know, they shove it in your face and tell you that you ARE wrong, in every single way. They don't believe in an afterlife even though it would make this life absolutely pointless if we didn't have an afterlife as this life is relatively short.

Enlighten me, for I don't see Atheists 'Shoving' our beliefs in Chritians faces. What I see is a group of 'Non-Believers' whom question things around them, including one another. So us 'Atheists' are just questioning the very existance of God. The vs. between Christianity and Atheism--the thread we are in. If you put two and two together-- you get 4, but also you see that you are mistaken and we just want ANSWERS.

ANd atheists base their world on something that is only theory. Stop thinking in steriotypes, or else I would like to know what I am, since I cannot be a christians, because I am not intolerant nor ignorant to other religions.

The very base of christianity is a theory, so I do not see your point. . .

apparently marine archaeologists have started to find evidence that the Black Sea (or maybe the Red Sea or the Dead Sea, one of those three) used to be a valley with a primitive civilization. The water from the Mediterranean was kept back by a mountain ridge, but one day the ridge gave way so the valley flooded completely. But that's just a theory put out recently.

We don't have the tools to find such information.

This is why I don't like Atheists as a group. They are not a group, they are free thinkers who usually came to their own conclusions in different ways and all have different belief systems. Saying anything about Atheists as a group is meaningless as they differ in beliefs from one to the next.

You are right, in a way. For there are Biologists, Astroligists, etc. There are divisions in our classification 'Atheisism'.

Christians on the other hand mostly believe the same thing and group themselves. So what is this forum really discussing? That a group can pick on the individual? Sounds like communism to me

Are we a government?! No, so we can't be communist. And we don't 'ick' individuals, we question the religion as a whole.

And just because you are an atheist does not mean you have to prove every single "fact" to non-atheists. Because often, there is little to no facts in science, when it comes to theories, and there are many diffenrent realities, because there are many diffenrent theories.

How many 'theories; do you think science is made of? For I'd like to know. For it seems to be you have a cabinet inside of you. Your just bubbling out information. No evidence! So are you saying things that are true?
Most 'theroies' are being proven, for there are millions of trials, making them as close as real as they can get.

the world may never know
---------------------------
this argument pretty much proves that I have the most plausible religion, because my deity has been proven to exist.
Praise the Cola. It is the Cola that feeds the child's hydration, the Cola that refreshes the mind. It is the Cola that elevates the senses. It i the Cola that soothes the soul. It is the Cola that supports our economy. It is the Cola that binds our soul to our physical form. It is the Cola and the Cola alone that shelters us from the storm of dehydration and absence of flavor. The Cola sustains, the Cola invigorates, the Cola gives inferior humanity the inspiration to do great things. It is the Cola. It is our savior.

That is JUST WONDERFUL.
Now make a new thread, so we can discuss on-topic things.
Go on, shoo.
Aaroniscool
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Aaroniscool
254 posts
Nomad

Enlighten me, for I don't see Atheists 'Shoving' our beliefs in Chritians' faces


School System's doing a good job of it.

Most 'theroies' are being proven, for there are millions of trials, making them as close as real as they can get.


And in addition to that, many theories are also being disproved (remember spontaneous generation?)

Are we a government?! No, so we can't be communist. And we don't 'ick' individuals, we question the religion as a whole.


Read carefully and you'll find that he's referring to Ad Hominem arguments that people tend to do. I think that was aimed at Christians too...

Secondly, the staticosity of religion, if you will, means that you're chained to books saying that homosexuality is an abodmination, that women are inferior, that **** is good, et cetera. Static things have problems; that is, when other things change, your static belief might not be right anymore


Maybe so. But if a religion is based on static things, then the religion would, in turn, change. If the Bible was disproved in every way possible, I might not believe it. But that's not the case thus far.

Praise the Cola. It is the Cola that feeds the child's hydration, the Cola that refreshes the mind. It is the Cola that elevates the senses. It i the Cola that soothes the soul. It is the Cola that supports our economy. It is the Cola that binds our soul to our physical form. It is the Cola and the Cola alone that shelters us from the storm of dehydration and absence of flavor. The Cola sustains, the Cola invigorates, the Cola gives inferior humanity the inspiration to do great things...


The Cola kills your teeth. The cola makes a good blood cleaner. The Cola make pennies shiny when you immerse them in it for a period of time.

:P
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

School System's doing a good job of it.


THANK YOU! and yes evolution is an atheistics belief, no don't give me crap about theistic evolution, it doesn't work, if it were true then God created death and the soul evolved... And in case you missed it you HAVE to be taught evolution. Sending to private schools and homeschooling might be more than some families can afford who are ALREADY PAYING for the public schools.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Soda doesn't hydrate, it actually dehydrates you.


stop assaulting my beliefs!!Repent, I say, repent!!
---------------------------------------------------

Yeah, I should get back on topic :P. Anyway, like I said on my earlier posts, what this "god" most likely is is a Driving Natural Force that forces the hand of natural occurrences, because the evidence on the side of the Christians is that this old book from 2000 years ago that has been translated hundreds of times, and all the atheists can say is "well we're right because you don't have good evidence" and there are many occurrences in physics (such as what started the Big Bang, the reason for quantum entanglement, etc.) that would be explained by this theory. That and, it doesn't exhibit an over-thinking or under-thinking of the concept of god, and doesn't adhere to the belief that god is anything like a human. If there really is a god in any of the manifestations that have been suggested insofar, than the human psychology would be far too insufficient too understand such a being (or natural force.) In fact, the only deity so far that has been suggested that could be understood completely by humanity is cola
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

We don't have the tools to find such information


i called it a recent theory for a reason.
Talo
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Talo
945 posts
Nomad

Sorry, I have lost the point of this topic. It's Christianity vs Atheism in terms of what? Who is right? Which is a better religion? Head to Head? What are we comparing?

Skyla
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Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

Nope, fact. For it has been tested millions and millions of times there for 99.9% fact, so I'd go with that. :]


Don't correct me if you don't know what you're talking about. Gravity is not a fact because there's no way to absolutely prove it. And a fact is 100% correct, not 99.9 or less.

-Skyla
Skyla
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Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

School System's doing a good job of it.


What? You can't forget that many countries don't teach certain topics because they go against people's religious beliefs. Besides, what's wrong with teaching evolution? Even if you don't believe it in the theory still exists and is widely accepted. That's like saying let's not teach Greek history because it isn't true. Whether you believe it or not, you should be educated about it because it is a major theory.
Cenere
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Cenere
13,657 posts
Jester

The very base of christianity is a theory, so I do not see your point. . .


No, a belief. Many super-christians are saying that the whole bible is the only thruth. I am just saying that I like to think there is someone out there taking just a tiny care of us. That is what I believe in.
I am not defying science, I just find it... I find that it miss something.

Are we a government?! No, so we can't be communist. And we don't 'ick' individuals, we question the religion as a whole.


I think you managed to look at that wrong. It was a critisismn of christians as I could see, but I might be wrong. Alas, I am human.

How many 'theories; do you think science is made of? For I'd like to know. For it seems to be you have a cabinet inside of you. Your just bubbling out information. No evidence! So are you saying things that are true?
Most 'theroies' are being proven, for there are millions of trials, making them as close as real as they can get.


Just look at the theories of what/how the universe is.
Oh, and sorry, I am an Information Scientist, I do that sometimes.
"Proven", to an extent. It is a law (or something) that scientific facts are only facts for a time, until there have been more research. Actully you cannot say that anything have been proven to be a hundred percent correct.
And no, I am not saying that any religion have been proven to be other than a belief, but nothing more is needed.

Enlighten me, for I don't see Atheists 'Shoving' our beliefs in Chritians faces


Well, you are just telling me and everyone else who believe in religion that we are wrong? Because your science tells you you are right.
I have seen many atheists try to "question" christianity, and always end up "Can you prove that and that". That is not questioning, that is like third grade bullying.
Really do not mind it, when it is the fanatics, but the regular christians? We just have something more than science to believe in. And have I been shoving my belief in your face, then I will apologize for being rude and narrowsighted. It was not my intention.

Don't correct me if you don't know what you're talking about. Gravity is not a fact because there's no way to absolutely prove it. And a fact is 100% correct, not 99.9 or less.


Nothing in science is a fact (thank you!!). I like it that way, makes me curios of the answers and stuff like that. We will never get an absolute answer to anything, which is ever so cool, because the world would suck otherwise.

You can't forget that many countries don't teach certain topics because they go against people's religious beliefs.


Which is bad.

Besides, what's wrong with teaching evolution? Even if you don't believe it in the theory still exists and is widely accepted. That's like saying let's not teach Greek history because it isn't true. Whether you believe it or not, you should be educated about it because it is a major theory.


Aye! Also why I find it strange that most contries does not have a religion-class in school/highschool. Not saying christianity, but religion in a broad sense. The major religions, so we could stop bashing muslims for being muslims, when Ji-Had has nothing to do with suicide bombs or flying into buildings.
General understanding in every aspect of the world would be nice, be it science, religion or art.

And how religion is static? Well, most of the major religions have not changed for centuries, thus being.. Old and boring, yes. But we have something to believe in that does not change just because some scientists found out the information was wrong.
Yes, there are religions popping up every day, and I find it a little disturbing, but we are living in a society where that is normal, because we want to customize our entire life.
And christianity is also being altered and all that, but most fanatics are stuck in the same hole in the ground as their parents, and their parents, and their parents.
The rest of us, or at least I have something to lean against that does not change. But I do not let it rule my life.

Tl;dr:
I love science AND religion, because they rulez!!
Skyla
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Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

Nothing in science is a fact (thank you!!). I like it that way, makes me curios of the answers and stuff like that. We will never get an absolute answer to anything, which is ever so cool, because the world would suck otherwise.


Pretty sure this statement, among many others, is a fact: "Jupiter is a planet."

There are many facts in bioscience. A lot of the information in Biology is proven to be fact, cells and respiration, to name a few.

Which is bad.


My point exactly.


Ji-Had has nothing to do with suicide bombs or flying into buildings.


Jihad (not sure why you broke up the word into syllables) in Islam does not have to involve violence, Jihad means sacrificing the things you want to do for other people or for God. For example, you want to go to the playground for some fun, but you hear a call for prayer and drop what you're doing and your near-future plans to go to pray at the mosque. The greatest form of Jihad mentioned in the Quo'ran, however, is the sacrificing of one's own life for his country or for God, that vague idea is what people misunderstand for "Kill he who does not believe as I do."

I have something to lean against that does not change. But I do not let it rule my life.


The Quo'ran states that the Bible is corrupted by the Jews who did not approve of it. How do you know what is right when there is no proof backing it up other than a book, and that doesn't even offer evidence. How can you tell for certain that the Quo'ran is wrong when it stated that the Bible is corrupt? How do you know it's right?

I understand science doesn't offer all answers, but it is constant and new things are being discovered everyday which patch it all up much like a puzzle. Major religions, however, being static, are unfinished puzzles with the missing pieces being lost never to be found.

-Skyla.
Cenere
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Cenere
13,657 posts
Jester

Pretty sure this statement, among many others, is a fact: "Jupiter is a planet."

Pluto was a planet...

that vague idea is what people misunderstand for "Kill he who does not believe as I do."

I think the meaning is that you should defend your own home/country, so... I think those people are wonderfully wrong, but that might be me. Besides, they are attacking christians, which is blasphemy too (not that chriastians are better - -)

How do you know what is right when there is no proof backing it up other than a book, and that doesn't even offer evidence. How can you tell for certain that the Quo'ran is wrong when it stated that the Bible is corrupt? How do you know it's right?

I believe. And I think that the Quo'ran is just as right as the bible.
But again. Just because there is no proof, why should it be wrong? People have been cured with only belief, and thinking that something will wok often make it work. So I see no problem in believing in something. If you do, well, that is your choice, but I can still be allowed to have faith, can I not? Just as you can have your facts of life?

Major religions, however, being static, are unfinished puzzles with the missing pieces being lost never to be found.

Sadly the chraistian bible is a patchwork of texts, and I think most of the missing texts would make it better. But you must remember, there is things science never will answer. Because either it is - impossible, or else our society will be destroyed before it happens. Science is giving humanity between 500 and 5000 years more (no, I cannot remember which), and then we destroy ourselves, so either we reach the goal or not, but the puzzle will not be finished in your time.
Skyla
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Skyla
291 posts
Peasant

Pluto was a planet...


I don't see your logic? Pluto turned out to be a dwarf planet because they decided it was too small to be a planet. I understand that is only one of the reasons that it is no longer considered a planet, Pluto is no longer a planet by definition, but it still fits the description of a planet, other than the smallness detail.

I think the meaning is that you should defend your own home/country, so...


That may be the meaning, but it is written in a way which makes it hard to understand and vague.

Besides, they are attacking christians, which is blasphemy too


What? Muslims generally think negatively of western culture (therefore Christianity) only as a reaction to what Western countries have done to them, throughout history. It is not so much about religion but I'm not completely denying it's role.

I think that the Quo'ran is just as right as the bible.


But the Quo'ran stated that the Bible is not completely correct, you said they are both right, but they themselves contradict each other.

Just because there is no proof, why should it be wrong?


I sense aggression? I never said it was wrong. I asked a specific question about how you know it is right - don't try to refute my questions with questions.

thinking that something will wok often make it work


Thanks, I understand the basis of the placebo effect.

If you do, well, that is your choice, but I can still be allowed to have faith, can I not? Just as you can have your facts of life?


I don't recall saying I am against having faith. It provides motivation and enlightenment to people, it's just some parts of it that I have problems with, the parts that are blantantly against the laws of logic and common sense, and go against my idealogy. Concerning the talk about shoving beliefs in someone's face - I'm atheist, and I've had believers EVERYWHERE try to change that when they first find out.

But you must remember, there is things science never will answer. Because either it is - impossible, or else our society will be destroyed before it happens.


Who are you to put limitations on human knowledge? Are you omniscient? Just because things aren't going too great for us at the moment doesn't mean it will keep going down from here. Science might just discover ways to fix up the mistakes it made on it's route to success. For example, the O-Zone layer over Australia and New Zealand, how do you know for certain that it is impossible to repair? As you said, just because there's no proof doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Science is giving humanity between 500 and 5000 years more (no, I cannot remember which), and then we destroy ourselves, so either we reach the goal or not


Source to the first claim please? I doubt that is a fact because who knows what we will be like in, say, 500 years? What if we transformed a planet to support human and plant life? What if we became a multi-planetary species?

To your last statement, we can buy time that will allow us to achieve the goal.

the puzzle will not be finished in your time.


I am not concerned, I am talking about humanity's future, not mine.

-Skyla.
Pixie214
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Pixie214
5,838 posts
Peasant

I don't see your logic?


You said that it was fact that Jupiter was a planet, but if pluto can be demoted to a sub-planet why can't jupiter. Though "jupiter is a planet" is a fact now it may change inthe future.

I think that was the logic anyway.
Cenere
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Cenere
13,657 posts
Jester

I don't see your logic? Pluto turned out to be a dwarf planet because they decided it was too small to be a planet. I understand that is only one of the reasons that it is no longer considered a planet, Pluto is no longer a planet by definition, but it still fits the description of a planet, other than the smallness detail.


"If that is no more a planet, then maybe one day Jupiter will end up not being qualified as a planet too!!"
Just saying that something considered a fact, and was taught was changed, creating a new reality.

It is not so much about religion but I'm not completely denying it's role.


Christians attacking muslims because the christians are christians and the muslims are muslims are blasphemious too. The Quo'ran says it, and I am sure the bible does too.

But the Quo'ran stated that the Bible is not completely correct, you said they are both right, but they themselves contradict each other.

Okay, I will try again. If you are muslim, then believe in the Quo'ran, because that is the thruth for you, just at I believe in the new testament because I am christian. I have no reason to believe that something is wrong with having different believes, because everyone can be right.

I sense aggression? I never said it was wrong. I asked a specific question about how you know it is right - don't try to refute my questions with questions.


Okay, no, I have no proof for my god or any other god being real, nor that the godesses are, but I believe they are anyway. Call me foolish or blind to reality, I really do not care.

Thanks, I understand the basis of the placebo effect.


Oh, good! So you do understand that praying have ended up curing people?
"And someone who have prayed have died too, so that is no proof!" It is still a proof that believing does no harm.

Concerning the talk about shoving beliefs in someone's face - I'm atheist, and I've had believers EVERYWHERE try to change that when they first find out.

I hate those people. (Hate is a strong word, but I really do not like them) But I might say some of them amuses me. Jehova witnesses say that there is a certain amount of spots in heaven, a really low amount, and there they go trying to convert other people into their religion. I think it is a little stupid.
But really, please, please, please shout the ones who try to convert you, because they have no right to think for you.

Who are you to put limitations on human knowledge?

Sorry, Hello, I am an information Scientist under education. Oh, and common sense. Yes, science will probably fix the o-zone layer, because that is far from impossible, but I am talking about those small things. What is the universe. What came before the Big Bang? Why are we here? Small stuff like that. Fanatics already have those answers, I just doubt the rest of us will ever find out. Not for sure. It is not a limitation, merely a doubt in our intelligence.

Source to the first claim please?

Are you good at Danish? Popular-Scientific magazine here in DK. There was an article about what will come after us.

What if we transformed a planet to support human and plant life? What if we became a multi-planetary species?


I said humanity, not the world. At some point there will come something There always comes something. Nothing lasts forever. Even if we go to other planets, at some point we will be utterly f***ed, unless we become more than we are. At the moment ethics are hindering that progress, but still that development might not save us.

To your last statement, we can buy time that will allow us to achieve the goal.


Oh well, as long as the next generations become so much more than us. More than animals driven by anger and instinkts.

I am not concerned, I am talking about humanity's future, not mine.


There will always come an end. Either that, or we will regress into animals to survive. Or evolve into something better. Nothing that stay the same can survive, just like religion cannot (just look at what the westerlings are doing to the muslim countries!). Evolve or die?

This is a little weird, since this discussion seem to have developed into "I will not allow you to be right, even though you are saying I am" ^^
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

logic is almost entirely based on point-of-view. If A Christian is taught that the Bible is the ultimate truth, then the person would consider it logical to worship. an atheist, however, would consider it illogical because of their point-of-view, which is that the Bible is not true. So logic is not a valid support in any argument, because it can be bended to the person's point-of-view.

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