ForumsWEPR[nec]Christianity vs Atheism

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kiddslayer12
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kiddslayer12
70 posts
Nomad

I am a christian, i and i strongly belive in my lord jesus christ, and i also belive that if you belive in him and except him as your savior, u will go to heaven. and i also believe that he created the world, not the big bang, or that we came from stupid apes.

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Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

Generally most psychological studies disagree with this. Cultural differences are huge. Nearly all African cultures emphasise the good of the community over the individual. Most Arabic cultures are very collectivist in nature too. In pure communism there is no need for a state because there is no class conflict. People work and recieve resources according to their abilities and needs. They accept that everyone works at what they are best at/most suited for, yet recieve equal social and economic status. The population is meant to see the beauty in that.


That does not prove me wrong. I said that humans are selfish by nature. Of course, they can be taught to think differently, as with Christians, but in their pure state, they reserve to selfishness. Are you saying you are a freak who would work twice as hard as everybody else in a Communist community? Even Christians have trouble doing that, I must admit. You must be able to see the advantage capitalism takes over humans selfishness. No matter what, no matter who involved, Capitalism will always triumph over Communism, and going back to what I said before, that is pure proof that humans are naturally selfish and evil. If you still do not believe me, go find a pure completely Communist community that worked. I bet you can't.

Darwin himself was a Christian

Darwin was not a Christian. He said himself that, although he once was one, he took back all of his Christian beliefs when he came upon evolution. Sorry.

How can you say this and yet want Christianity to be taught in schools. That is completely hypocritical. In America about half the population belives in Evolution and half belives in Creationism. By teaching only the Creationsit point of view you would be pushing your beliefs on the other 50%.


I said you do not have a reason, not me. As Christians, we are told to spread the good news to others, so that they might know, and make the decision whether or not to follow God. On the other hand, you, as atheists, have no reason why you need to be preaching your stuff. You made your choice. Keep it to yourself.

Sounds like Pascal's Wager to me. It also seems like a pretty shallow reason to be Christian. If God is omniscient then he would know it was not true faith that lead people to believe.

There are many groups of Christianity that belive that all people who live morally 'good' lives go to heaven regardless of if they are Christian or not. It depends what variation you belive in. Christianity is a broad spectrum.


It might be shallow, but it is still a reason. Do you want me to repeat all of the other reasons I gave you again? That point was only one.

Hmm that's funny I always thought it was my employer he gave me my pay cheque.


As a Christian, I believe that whatever I get is a gift from God. God gave me the abilities to do what I do, to be able to do the job that I do, to be able to earn the money that I get. He created me, my soul, my brain, my arms, legs, muscles, everything. So really, since God gave me my abilities, should not I give back to His cause from the gifts I have received? Everything is a miracle. My boss could fire me any day. I could be out in the streets tomorrow. Who knows?

Just because it might not be philosophically interesting doesn't invalidate it in any way.


He does have a point in that evolution is very shallow.

Just because they live life the way they want doesn't mean they don't have morals. Maybe they live their life donating to charity and helping the less fortunate. Just because they don't have god to tell them they have to be a good person and because they don't have a set of morals already there for them doesn't mean that don't have any.


You might have morals, but when it comes down to the bottom, it is just your God-given conscience telling you what is right and wrong. You see, even atheists know that there is good and evil.
Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

God has given us a choice to be a Christian or a non-believer and i am a Christian no matter what someone thinks about me


Good for you! I congratulate you on your boldness. Glad to see me and fourtytwo are not the only ones around here.
fourtytwo
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fourtytwo
698 posts
Nomad

Another argument against evolution that I have seen fairly often is "Which came first? Thought or language?"
Thought is required for language, but language is also required for thought. Of course, there is the possibility of both coming at the same time, but how? How would an ape-ish human develope both thought and speech at the same time? It seems impossible.

Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

um, i find that a stupid argument, I have to say. Think about it.

Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

oops, pressed &quotost" accidentally. Okay, so, since animals can already think, all they have to do is develop language. No problem there. Sry.

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Most atheist ignore their conscience and do whatever they want.

atheists don't. Why should they? They live life the way they think they should/want.


how many times fast can you say "sweeping generalization!!!!!!?" If that is the way you think, then back up your opinion with a lot of evidence. Not just one example of an atheist being mean, but some absolute evidence to back up your opinions.
Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

fine:
FireflyIV:

No. [i]I chose wsomething I wanted to do.[i]


seems proof enough.
anyways, have you been reading my other proofs? you guys keep saying that I am using generalization, but when I give proof, you either ignore it or turn it down.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

As Christians, we are told to spread the good news to others, so that they might know, and make the decision whether or not to follow God.


Everyone is aware of Christianity, especially in America. It doesn't need to be taught in schools to spread.

That does not prove me wrong. I said that humans are selfish by nature. Of course, they can be taught to think differently, as with Christians, but in their pure state, they reserve to selfishness. Are you saying you are a freak who would work twice as hard as everybody else in a Communist community? Even Christians have trouble doing that, I must admit. You must be able to see the advantage capitalism takes over humans selfishness. No matter what, no matter who involved, Capitalism will always triumph over Communism, and going back to what I said before, that is pure proof that humans are naturally selfish and evil. If you still do not believe me, go find a pure completely Communist community that worked. I bet you can't.


The point I was making was that there seems not to be any innate desires at all in humans, other than to feed and survive, and that culture and rearing has far more of an impact on behaviour. Have you never considered that we are taught to be selfish and greedy by the system of capitalism? How can you be sure that human behaviour is innately greedy? Go find a pure capitalist country that worked. I bet you can't.

Darwin was not a Christian. He said himself that, although he once was one, he took back all of his Christian beliefs when he came upon evolution. Sorry.


He was agnostic not atheist. It's a big difference.

It might be shallow, but it is still a reason.


I thought people were meant to belive out of faith, not because they might as well because it doesn't matter if there is no God. Surely God know it is a shallow reason and know you were not a true beliver?

seems proof enough.


How exactly?

anyways, have you been reading my other proofs? you guys keep saying that I am using generalization, but when I give proof, you either ignore it or turn it down.


Which proofs are you reffering to?
Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

Everyone is aware of Christianity, especially in America. It doesn't need to be taught in schools to spread.


Proof please? I know several people who did not know about Christianity until I introduced them.

The point I was making was that there seems not to be any innate desires at all in humans, other than to feed and survive, and that culture and rearing has far more of an impact on behaviour. Have you never considered that we are taught to be selfish and greedy by the system of capitalism? How can you be sure that human behaviour is innately greedy? Go find a pure capitalist country that worked. I bet you can't.


Heh. The US worked until the corrupt atheists took over.

He was agnostic not atheist. It's a big difference.


Okay then. If Darwin was only speculating, then why is this "speculation" take so seriously and for granted today?

I thought people were meant to belive out of faith, not because they might as well because it doesn't matter if there is no God. Surely God know it is a shallow reason and know you were not a true beliver?


It is a reason to give some thought into it. I'll let you decide for yourself if you believe or not.

Which proofs are you reffering to?


Okay, at least you admit that I have given some proofs, lol. Go back and read if you do not remember. And here is another one: Isn't this âsurvival of the fittestâ thing evolution depends on âselfishâ by nature? Would you kill someone (no one in particular) so you might live, or would you rather die yourself? Every penny you spend on âwantsâ could be donated to somebody in need. Why don't you give up your excess stuff so that somebody else might enjoy life better?
Vert3x
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Vert3x
122 posts
Nomad

Another note, Love is a constant, not occasional. People may be "unselfish" sometimes, but there will always be times when they think of themselves. Look at yourself. Can you claim to have not been selfish all of your life?

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Proof please? I know several people who did not know about Christianity until I introduced them.


Not to sound rude to those people but they must be pretty uninformed to not know about Christianity.

Heh. The US worked until the corrupt atheists took over.


Proof? Also define worked. As far as I know you're still a superpower.

Okay then. If Darwin was only speculating, then why is this "speculation" take so seriously and for granted today?


Evolution remains a theory. Nothing is 100% proven. It is generally accepted because there is a lot of evidence supporting it. More so than any other theory.

Okay, at least you admit that I have given some proofs, lol. Go back and read if you do not remember. And here is another one: Isn't this �survival of the fittest� thing evolution depends on �selfish� by nature? Would you kill someone (no one in particular) so you might live, or would you rather die yourself? Every penny you spend on �wants� could be donated to somebody in need. Why don't you give up your excess stuff so that somebody else might enjoy life better?


Proofs just seems to be a very strong word to use.

Survival of the fittest is about competition not selfishness. Animals best adapted to survive, will and pass on their genes to the next generation. The emotion of selfishness doesn't come into it.

I do donate to charity. I sponsor a family in Sierra Leone and have done since I started earning. You said yourself you give 10% away. Why don't you give 100% if that's what Christianity dictates?

Look at yourself. Can you claim to have not been selfish all of your life?


No, I never said I was, or that people should be completely unselfish all the time. However that does not prove that selfishness is innate human behaviour.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

seems proof enough.
anyways, have you been reading my other proofs? you guys keep saying that I am using generalization, but when I give proof, you either ignore it or turn it down.

the word "most" is key here. Saying the word "most" is what makes it a sweeping generalization. There inevitably are bad atheists, but there are also good atheists. Christianity doesn't make you a positively moral person. Just look at all of those sinister ministers out there.
Lynoth
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Lynoth
509 posts
Nomad

I give proof, you either ignore it or turn it down.


That is not reliable &quotroof".

[url[http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/proof[/url]

The degree of evidence which convinces the mind of any truth or fact, and produces belief; a test by facts or arguments which induce, or tend to induce, certainty of the judgment; conclusive evidence; demonstration.



corrupt atheists

Are you implying that atheists are corrupt?
Because that, sir, I take as an insult.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Heh. The US worked until the corrupt atheists took over.

you do realize that every time you insult an atheist, you are sinning? You are being extremely disrespectful to about 60% of the people in this thread. Also, while I believe partially in capitalism, if Jesus was a politician, he would be socialist, because it is helping the poor. Giving up things that you have to help the less fortunate. Also, what "corrupt atheists" are you talking about? List three of them. You said "atheists," so you should be able to.
Here are a list of atheists on this thread who have contributed to the argument:
Moegreche
Talo
Fallensky
FireflyIV (I think)
Me (sorta, I'm a phenomenonist)
Here is a list of the contributing Christians:
Vert3x (you)
fourtytwo
Parsat

You should learn to be respectful and straighten up and fly right, or get out of the thread.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

add lynoth to the list.
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***My response was to Vert3x in rebuttal to his meanness***

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