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Devoidless
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Devoidless
3,675 posts
Jester

What my peers here think?

I would like to try and avoid a buch of rabid Catholics and Christians falling back only on the religious reasons and what have you. However, I do not see how that can be dodged.

My view? I'm for it. If a woman wants to get one, it is her choice. Some people seem to act like if one woman gets an abortion, it means that all the rest have to. If the child in question is not yours, butt out.

Also, on a lighter note, I say that abortions should be allowed when kids are up to 18 years old. That would solve a lot of headaches, eh?

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samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

So you want to force kids into this world, who didn't even ask to be born, into a world on the edge of entering a depression because your bible tells you to?


My christianity has little to do on my stand in this argument, and i'm not forcing them in case you missed it they don't have a choice to come out or not.

Well, if you're saying that the fetus has the right to live despite the woman's wishes, then they indeed do not have the same value of life. That puts the fetus' worth over that of the pregnant woman's, which leads into my other points that I already posted.


No, you can't just choose to kill someone because it's causing you pain when having sex was your choice in the first place.
Zootsuit_riot
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Zootsuit_riot
1,523 posts
Nomad

Polonius, you make good points. But, your comparisons are invalid because you are relating them to age groups and persons that are not fetus'. (Does anyone know the plural?)

Abortion applies only to a fetus, and thus, the arguments should be kept with fetus' in context.

No, you can't just choose to kill someone because it's causing you pain when having sex was your choice in the first place.


It's not a someone. The fetus has no identity; it does not interact with others. It has no personality. It is a developing sack of cells.

Also, rape and incest happen. Personally, I'd much rather have my girlfriend abort the fetus early on then go through the shame of having everyone know she was pregnant before she was married, the pain of carrying the baby, and the torment of having to deliver it. Plus, being financially screwed and having to live off the government isn't exactly an ideal lifestyle...
necromancer
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necromancer
750 posts
Peasant

they don't have a choice to come out or not


Exactly. The unborn have no ability to control their lives and therefore are outside of the moral sphere. A parent normally has full control over their born children. Why? Because even born, a child has little control over their life, they cannot obtain food for themselves, they cannot obtain clothing for themselves, they cannot obtain shelter for themselves. In this way they are subjected to their parent's decisions. But an unborn fetus has absolutely no control over their life. They are absolutely dependent on their parents, with no ability to transfer to an orphanage or foster parent. Thus, because the embryo or fetus has no choice another is required to choose for them. Only the mother chooses what food is put into her body during the time of the pregnancy, the unborn has no say. The power to determine the fate of the unborn is transferred to the hands of the mother, who has the absolute authority over herself.
Strop
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Strop
10,816 posts
Bard

Guys, just a reminder to be careful with how you word things?

I mean, you wouldn't want something like this to happen:

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq105/strawpony/quote.jpg

Also samy, I believe what zootsuit is saying is that it is all well and good to "see both sides of the argument", but you have to at least forward a consistent position if you're going to defend an opinion.

It is the womens choice to have sex...**** i don't sanction it either


Undermines itself because you've made an assertion and then acknowledged its counterexample in the next sentence. This would be grounds for reviewing your position and perhaps refining it.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

It's not a someone. The fetus has no identity; it does not interact with others. It has no personality. It is a developing sack of cells.


My child isn't an identity?

Also, **** and incest happen. Personally, I'd much rather have my girlfriend abort the fetus early on then go through the shame of having everyone know she was pregnant before she was married, the pain of carrying the baby, and the torment of having to deliver it. Plus, being financially screwed and having to live off the government isn't exactly an ideal lifestyle...


I wouldn't if i got someone pregnent i would urge her to have an adoption not an abortion.
hxclongboarder
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hxclongboarder
133 posts
Nomad

zoot suit i believe it is fetii

samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

ok strop but that longboarder needs to be banned read some of his posts in other threads.


Exactly. The unborn have no ability to control their lives and therefore are outside of the moral sphere. A parent normally has full control over their born children. Why? Because even born, a child has little control over their life, they cannot obtain food for themselves, they cannot obtain clothing for themselves, they cannot obtain shelter for themselves. In this way they are subjected to their parent's decisions. But an unborn fetus has absolutely no control over their life. They are absolutely dependent on their parents, with no ability to transfer to an orphanage or foster parent. Thus, because the embryo or fetus has no choice another is required to choose for them. Only the mother chooses what food is put into her body during the time of the pregnancy, the unborn has no say. The power to determine the fate of the unborn is transferred to the hands of the mother, who has the absolute authority over herself.


Wait to give it a choice kill it if it wants to be aborted.
Zootsuit_riot
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Zootsuit_riot
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Nomad

My child isn't an identity?


Fetus, thank you. The fetus itself has a form, but has nothing to identify with. It is not "alive" in many senses. It has a heartbeat, but it cannot talk. It cannot think for itself, it cannot survive on it's own. Once again, it is a sack of cells, not "someone".
hxclongboarder
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hxclongboarder
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Nomad

The plural is fetuses, or sometimes feti.


There you go zuit suit
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Fetus, thank you. The fetus itself has a form, but has nothing to identify with. It is not "alive" in many senses. It has a heartbeat, but it cannot talk. It cannot think for itself, it cannot survive on it's own. Once again, it is a sack of cells, not "someone".


Then give the baby a chance to say if it wants to live once it can make decisions.
necromancer
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necromancer
750 posts
Peasant

Wait to give it a choice kill it if it wants to be aborted


But, it doesn't have the ability to make choices... only the mother does... That misses the argument I make.
Zootsuit_riot
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Zootsuit_riot
1,523 posts
Nomad

Then give the baby a chance to say if it wants to live once it can make decisions.


Then give the baby a chance to say if it wants to live


Then give the baby a chance


Then give the baby


baby


Wrong, again.
samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

But, it doesn't have the ability to make choices... only the mother does... That misses the argument I make.


then WAIT till it's about 5 when it can.

Wrong, again.


fetus -.-
FutureUSMC
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FutureUSMC
270 posts
Nomad

Personally I am not a fan of this topic. I know that they have the whole stem cell research. (which on a side note think they have found the cure for diabetes by stem cell research). I am against it (Sorry Samy). But I will say this if I was put in that position right now about having a kid or carrying on with my life and all. I know I would think long and hard about abortion.

samy
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samy
4,871 posts
Nomad

Ok im going to say something and i know some people might be offended but im not trying to be offencive. You guys are in a way being ignorant your forgeting about a third choice that really fits both sides, adoption.

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