Forums → WEPR → Is GOD true?Does time exists?What happens when we die?Is the light in the end of the tunnel true?Or the humans created all this?

In a very simple nutshell the big bang was the result of rapid heating and cooling, originating from a singularity.

There are plenty of other theories on the origin of the universe.

Ok. I read somewhere that someone estimated there to be around 10,000,000,000,000,000 stars. If every other star had a planet (not true, but some stars have more than one planet) you end up with 5,000,000,000,000,000 planets. If you go through all my estimated calculations, you end up with 2.5 planets being able to support life. still not a lot. Even if there were a thousand planets able to support life, there still won't be much chance of any of them having any life on them at all. This leads me to believe that a loving Creator made everything instead of everything happening by chance.

no offence fourtytwo but your estimated calculations are out of wack.

At the last recent estimates the universe conatins 1x10^24 planets. Frank Drake, an AMerican Astrophycisist, worked out an equation for the liklyhood of an area of space containing a planet that could sustain inteligent life. To put it basically you divide the number of stars in an area by the number of those likley to have planets, divide that by the number that could sustain life, divide that by the number of planets that could sustain life etc. Even with the most conservative inputs the number of advanced cicilisations in the Milky Way alone (a relativly small galaxy containing merely 400 billion stars) is still in the millions. To yet again quote Douglas Adams "Space is Big". When you look at what these numbers mean in terms of distance between these planets it would mean they were, on average, 200 light years from each other.

[hint]Oh well. Maybe Pixie can give me an answer.[/hint]

The equation (If you want to know, Drake and his guys plugged in a bunch of numbers and guessed that at any given time, there are 10 civilizations that are out there that can receive, decode, and return radio signals.)


Now that equation is for calculating how many civilizations are out there that can receive, decode, and return radio signals, so I will only be dealing with these parts.
~R* is the average rate of star formation in our galaxy
~fp is the fraction of those stars that have planets
~ne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
~fâ" is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
~L is the length of time such civilizations are able to send detectable signals

Here is what Drake's guys estimated for the parts that I will be using:
R* = 10/year (10 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy)
fp = 0.5 (half of all stars formed will have planets)
ne = 2 (stars with planets will have planets capable of supporting life)
fl = 1 (100% of these planets will develop life)
L = 10,000 (the civilizations will be able to send signals for that many years)

If I don't revise those numbers and what those numbers mean, we would be in a galaxy with 100,000 intelligent civilizations. Fl is off because I remove fi and fc. L is going to be how long those planets are able to support life, so it will have to change too. To you evolutionists, this will be off by a ton, so I will give reasons for all my numbers.

R* = 10/year (10 stars formed per year, on the average over the life of the galaxy)
I don't know anything about this one, so I will leave it alone.

fp = 0.5 (half of all stars formed will have planets)
This one is believable, so I will leave it alone too.

ne = 1 (stars with planets will have planets capable of supporting life)
This one means "The number of stars with planets that will have planets capable of supporting life in our galaxy at any given time." It seemed a little too optimistic to me, considering all I had said before, so I changed it to 1 as a compromise. (seems fair enough to me)

fl = .000000001 (the number of the planets that will develop life in the amount of time they can sustain it)
I'm assuming that the planet[s] can sustain life for quite a while, but even in my "quite a while", there isn't much chance of a planet producing life. Also, this is much larger of a number than I want. I really think that it should have about twenty more zeros between the one and the decimal.

L = 100,000 (the planet[s] will be able to sustain life for this many years)
This is extremely far-fetched. Stars slowly burn away, so there is a small window of time where a star can be just right for life. 100,000 years is not a small window of time. If the earth is 10,000 years old, during the first few hundred years, it would be just cool enough for living creatures.

This gives you .00005 planets that contain life existing in our galaxy. That was my overly-optimistic side too. If my pessimistic side had plugged in the numbers, I would end up with 5 x 10^-30.

the "fâ�" should say "fl"

Even with the most conservative inputs the number of advanced civilizations in the Milky Way alone (a relatively small galaxy containing merely 400 billion stars) is still in the millions

lol I made a mistake in typing.


now you should be able to click on it.

Cool . I have been lied to repeatedly at school the. Dang wiki. lol.

O.O The school lied to you!?!?! wow...GO HOMESCHOOLING!!!

Why can't I say that God did it? That is what I believe! Why can't he be in the same plane?

I didn't say that I believe he is in the same plane. I was just wondering why he couldn't be in the same plane. I think he could be in the same plane though. Before he created everything, there was absolutely nothing. Time didn't even exist. If you notice, the first verse in the Bible is "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." I italicized "beginning" for emphasis. God started time. If time didn't exist, why would there be a need for dimensions? So, God always was. He created time, and He created dimensions. Now, if there is only one plane, then it is possible to reach heaven physically. I don't believe it is possible to do that, so yes, I believe in alternate realities. Since I also believe that God is omnipresent, I believe He exists in every plane, so he is also here with us.
Since He is God, he needs nothing. I don't believe God even needs a plane. Before He created everything, there was nothing. What would be the point of going anywhere? There was nowhere to go to. Anyways, if there was nothing, then you can't define any of it as a reality. You couldn't even say what dimension everything was in, because there was nothing. There was just God.

Fourtytwo, or anyone else in this discussion (though fourtytwo had been in this thread the longest), could you please sum up the &quotroblem" and the &quotoints so far" of this discussion? Just a sentence or a few, not saying you to write paragraphs.

Example:
Problem: Did big-bang happen?
Points: uhh... not much of an example here, but you get what i want from you, yes? Put something like: "This is the theory: blah blah, and this is why i say its false: blah blah."

Thanks a lot.

Why i do this is that this whole debate has gotten way too long over the last multiple pages. There have been things pointed out and counterings made disproving a part of those points so i want to know whats left to discuss.

Don't worry, I'm fine with writing paragraphs.

Problem: How much chance is there of intelligent living beings to appear by chance?
Points:
There are two things to consider. The first is how much chance there is of a planet being suitable for living being, and the second is how much chance is there of living beings happening by chance.

~My side-There is not much chance of any planet being suitable for living creatures. There is even less chance of evolution happening. Go back and read my posts and you'll know why I say this.

~Atheist side-We're here. (I don't know what to put here, so if one of you atheists will fill it in, it will be appreciated)


Problem: Who created this reality? If God is in it, He couldn't have made it because that would be a paradox (see Talo's most recent post)

Points:
~My side-just some of the more important points I made.

Now, if there is only one plane, then it is possible to reach heaven physically. I don't believe it is possible to do that, so yes, I believe in alternate realities.

Since I also believe that God is omnipresent, I believe He exists in every plane, so he is also here with us.

if there was nothing, then you can't define any of it as a reality.

Thanks a lot.

BTW its not just Atheists who'd counter that. An agnostic whos still interested in discussing possibilities or a person who simply doesnt want people to come to misconclusions (is that a word?) would also be in this discussion.

Im personally in between the two i described. More the second i suppose. Because i dont really care about whats true, believing that untill i (and you guys =P) die, we'll be far from having found it out, but im just taking part here for the sake of common sense, if you get what i mean...

There is not much chance of any planet being suitable for living creatures. There is even less chance of evolution happening. Go back and read my posts and you'll know why I say this.