Because I'm tired of Christians saying that this is a Christian nation...
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. "
-Thomas Jefferson
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."
-Benjamin Franklin
From the Treaty of Tripoli:
"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion"
Listen to the Pledge of Allegiance. Don't kid yourself, when the pledge was made, they were talking about the Christain god. There are also many other various references to God. How many times has any US president NOT said "God bless America" or relate to America being watched over by god?
And how does this make a nation Christian? We really need to analyze the question here. What makes a nation be Christian? Is it that the majority of population follows the Christian faith? Is it that the laws are developed among Christian values? That the nation's leaders are Christian? As a nation, is it our goal to strive to what the Bible preaches?
Without this definition set in stone, you have two people arguing on completely various spectrum. We can argue much better on a question like "Is this nation built on Christian values?". In that argument, Yakooza has a good attack.
Today, we still hear the president of the United States claim that God shall be with us.
This means nothing. They are just attempts of getting the population on their side by appealing to their values.
Also, I believe the original post was meant to combat those who claim that the nation is of Christian values and so things like abortion should automatically be outlawed.
Drace, what you said is true. I even tried to state your point in one of my last paragraphs that it all depends on the way you inturpet "Christian Nation". The two things I dissagree with is that I believe what I said supports a strong arguement that the nation was built on strong Christian values. Now those values are called "The American Way."
I guess you can say that the nation and how it works evolved from Christian values and that today, the views are not Christain, but Puritan and Catholic views(whom are both Christians). That is one reason why this topic is hard to argue.
This means nothing. They are just attempts of getting the population on their side by appealing to their values.
That perhaps may be true. That arguement argues more of the statement that most American leaders and it's people are Christian than if the US was built on Christian values. So it depends on how you inturpet Christian nation. So you got me on that one.
BTW, the Pledge of Allegiance has a lot to do with this being a Christian (or puritan and/or Catholic) nation because it all goes back to the City on the Hill.
If you'll look around, it actually matters quite little if the nation is called a Christian nation and if the majority of voters and figures had held themselves to Christian concepts. If something quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and has looks like a duck, it's a duck.
Nope, it is just a very small man in a duck outfit.
I've read through, and more or less everything which I was going to say has already been said. Yet I still am going to fill in some gaps and toss in my two cents.
Waay back in the day, a bunch of dudes went "This totally blows, man. We can't practice our own religion and stuff." So they all jumped on boats and sailed on over here. They were all happy and stuff, going "Holy snap! This place is wonderful! Trees...animals...dirt..fruit..and, hey? Is that a person?!?" Fastforward 150 years. Nearly all the natives are dead/shoved onto tiny little plots of land 'given' to them by the gov't(which mentioned gov't took from afore mentioned people in the first place).
Wait, I have nothing left to argue. It is a Christian nation! What other religion would go to a wonderful new land, claim it for their own, kill everyone living there and spin the story until it seems like a postitive thing?
What other religion would go to a wonderful new land, claim it for their own, kill everyone living there and spin the story until it seems like a postitive thing?
why that sounds a lot like Christianity, and all the other religions that look to only 1 God. Judaism with the Israeli Palestine conflict. Islam with America Iraqi/Iranian/other religious beliefs.
But we also have to remember that the United States is only a Christian majority nation, but isnt a Christian nation, because it is only a majority
I'm sorry, but I never heard any stories of any other religion repeatedly through out history finding new worlds, cleansing the populous of the unpious and then moving in all comfy like. Just saying.
Look around you. Sadly, too many things are based directly off of Christianity or have involve such things. The money in your pocket says "In God We Trust." You swear in on a Bible when you take the stand in court(granted you do not have to, but most people do it ayways). A majority of laws passed/which are subject to heated debates are due to Christian influences(namely because most all politicians who affect such things are, guess what, Christian). And on and on.
It is not a matter of majority. It is a matter of who is actually in power. We could be 90% non-Christian by populous, yet have a gov't predominantly run by Christians. That, sadly, makes a Christian nation.
Not to discredit the point you were making or anything, but I don't think you can really blame the Jews for the Israeli Palestine conflict. Palestine struck, they struck back.
Not blaming them... I'm just saying that there is a conflict. Palestinians were the first people living in that region actually, they were driven out by the jewish masses when Israel became a recognized country. A few hundred years later Palestinians struck. Technically the knights of the crusades were the first to claim Jerusalem from the Palestinians and then Palestinians gained control, then the Jews, then present day conflict.
The founding fathers said creator, they did not specify a god or gods, and this was to keep things secular, to keep christians from creating christian laws.
People came to this land to escape religious persecution, including the puritans. Even though the Puritans were religious, they did not make the US constitution.
Find me anywhere, anywhere in the constitution where religion is mentioned beyond the first amendment. Remember, the founding fathers SPECIFICALLY SAID THAT THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION in the Treaty of Tripoli.
Politicians only say they're Christian because atheism is political suicide these days.
Yakooza, you keep using the same excuse. You fail to argue against the facts presented. There is more to a country being Christain than whats in the constitution. Read the last page or so. Then, explain how what I said or what Devoidless said was wrong.
The population is mostly Christian, 77%, so if all Christians banded together, they could get anything done they wanted in this country. Is that enough definition of a Christian nation? There's freedom of religion, but that's probably your only argument the other way.
NoName said everything perfectly. This topic will never be solved unless we state the rules of being a Christian nation set in stone.
True.... But the problem is, The country isn't all Christian (personally I could care less, I pretend I'm Christian to prevent converters) Then again I've seen atheists and people of other religious affiliations in a Christian Private school (this is important because dumb parents can't sue for retarded religious reasons) which happens to be our rivals.
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The population is mostly Christian, 77%, so if all Christians banded together, they could get anything done they wanted in this country. Is that enough definition of a Christian nation? There's freedom of religion, but that's probably your only argument the other way.
