Because I'm tired of Christians saying that this is a Christian nation...
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. "
-Thomas Jefferson
"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and I think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble...."
-Benjamin Franklin
From the Treaty of Tripoli:
"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion"
Im not saying it does im saying god helped us during troubled times and helped built this nation. man i hate it when people pick little things out from sentences and try to use them against you? Annoying right?
There is no doubt they were talking about God, since most people in that time belong to the Christian religion. Don't try to switch meanings around to suit your own beliefs.
They said creator, they wern't saying Christian god, they wern't saying Hindu gods, they wern't saying Greek mythological gods.
Jefferson specifically restrained himself from specifying Christianity. Although the founding fathers were believers, they knew about the dangers of Christianity. Bitterness arose when colonies passed laws against people of certain religions holding publics office. That is why they made the US secular.
No where, beyond the first amendment, does the constitution say anything about religion. Even early pastors claimed the US was not christian. They were outraged at the founding fathers making secularism a law, they said that the nation could not last if it did not give special treatment to Christianity.
Also, it doesn't matter how much of the population declares themselves Christian. How many pray, go to church, repent for their sins.
Remember, the Founding Fathers in the treaty of Tripoli told the muslim leaders of North Africa that the US was not a Christian nation.
The majority will not stay Christian for long...their percentages are slowly slipping, allowing the rise of atheism, agnosticism, and ireligion.
In the end, the founding fathers were dedicated to the separation of church and state. However, the influence that Christianity has had on the history of the United States has been enormous. We cannot call ourselves a Christian nation as England called itself a Protestant nation or France a Catholic nation in the wars of religion, but to claim that Christianity has never had any effect on the events of the United States is wrong. In that respect we may call ourselves a Christian nation. And unfortunately, I believe that is what several of us are trying to disprove.
I think that this nation is not intended to be a Christian nation, and does not discourage other religious beliefs. However, I think that with so much based on Christianity, such as swearing on the Bible to take president's oath, "one nation, under God" in the pledge, and the fact that Christianity makes up 77% of the population, it wouldn't be wrong to consider it a Christian nation.
Even so, there's a lot of Christian history in this country. My point being that while there's freedom of religion, it wouldn't be a mistake to consider the United States a Christian nation, certainly people aren't going to consider it a "freedom of religious affliation" nation.
Even early pastors claimed the US was not christian.
Proof?
No where, beyond the first amendment, does the constitution say anything about religion.
False.
They were outraged at the founding fathers making secularism a law, they said that the nation could not last if it did not give special treatment to Christianity.
It doesn't look like the U.S. is going to last too long..
Listen to the Pledge of Allegiance. Don't kid yourself, when the pledge was made, they were talking about the Christain god. There are also many other various references to God. How many times has any US president NOT said "God bless America" or relate to America being watched over by god?
Also when the Puritans came and landed, we were sooo Christian we killed innocent people claiming them to be witches. The only time a person was considered NOT to be a witch was when a person with power or his family was condemned. Ever hear of the Salem Witch Trials?
That being said, we most definately were a Christian Nation! In fact, we still do see ourselves as the city on the hill. America police the world because we beleive that the world should be like us. Even though we don't see it in the religous manner as the Puritans, their ways continue on. We try to change the world because we do see ourselves as the right example.
Today, we still hear the president of the United States claim that God shall be with us. Just because a few famous people in the past said the things you quoted does not mean we are not a religous nation. If anything, you proved the opposite! They said those things because they know that our nation takes their Christian beliefs too far (or people do in general). They did not say that America was or was not a Christain Religion. They told their truth (though they told the truth because either the nation or it's people took Christianity too far). That treaty you quoted. That is a bloody joke. The ONLY reason it says what it says is because it was made to preserve peace. The government lies to preserve peace all the time. It also lies to get what it wants when it doesn't relate to maintaining peace. I don't even think you can deny that. The nation was built by Christians. The only reason it is slightly true is because America is a country of religous freedom and saying we are not a Christian nation is a play on words.
So that being said, we were, and still are, a Christian Nation, and we still do carry on some Christain bonds with our Nation's leaders and beliefs.
So it depends on your definition of being a Christain Nation. Our nation is Christain in the sence that America runs on Christian beliefs. Though the laws are not built around Christianity, the mindset has hardly changed. Also, our leaders use God's name all the time to encourage the nation. Not only that, but there are references to God in the decloration. The only reason why "creator" was used was because they did not want to contradict the ammendment to freedom of religion. There are only 4 that I could find on the internet. Here Not much, but they are there.
It is not, however, a Christian nation in the sense that America is a free country and it does not force Christianity and the laws do not revolve around religion. This is either a play on words or a seperate meaning all together of "Christain Nation".
Yakooza98k: If you'll look around, it actually matters quite little if the nation is called a Christian nation and if the majority of voters and figures had held themselves to Christian concepts. If something quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and has looks like a duck, it's a duck.
