Religion is a lifestyle, chosen by you. If you don't like religion, then don't believe, if you are a religious person, then believe. Just do this without trying to force your opinion down on others.
They choose the way they want to live not you, and if they are christian then so be it, it's not going to affect you in any way. You are not going to change the way they run their life by posting on the armor games forums, if you want to make a difference go be a politician.
I just think it's sad, how people just can't respect one another like they used to. I know this is a debate forum, but isn't is possible to debate while also being friendly at the same time? This is all I ask for, a friendly forum. Thank you,
I don't have a bias against religion, I just think it's wrong to say it doesn't affect people.
Take for example my brother, who is a social worker in a very religious part of London. Mny of the children he works with come from religious families. These religious ideals and values have been passed onto them. However in many cases, these values clash with cultural expectations and behaviours. This makes my brother's job inifinitely more difficult as he has to asses how best to handle the conflicts of values between religion and UK law.
I can see where your coming from, and I can see the problem your brother faces, but I really don't know a good solution to that problem since I live in America (Darn americans!) where religion is usually not held back by law. I guess I have no choice but to agree with you until I do some research!
No matter how politely one states their opinion, there is bound to be someone offended by it, that was the point I was trying to make, but I see your point.
In which case it becomes the other persons fault for being insulted by your opinion.
Still, you haven't given me a reason why I should always be polite. It's not respectful doesn't cut it. People are entitled to say what they want, as long as what they say isn't against the rules. If people get insulted by it, so be it. It's like giving people freedom of speech and adding a clause forcbidding saying what could be construed as disrespectful. In my opinion, it's not too big of an issue on here anyway.
I never said you had to be polite, i'm saying it's the right thing to do. If you don't want to be respectful then that's your problem. I'm not trying to force you to be a good person.
The predominant arguments take place in the religious sphere.
Why do you say that? A lot of people are intolerant of gays, not just ultra-conservatives. A lot of people also oppose stem cell research for non-religious reasons (ie, they think it won't produce results). And while I would call abortion a moral issue, I wouldn't say it is a religious one necessarily. Whether or not I was Christian, I would still say that a woman shouldn't get an abortion unless she has a medical reason, because we don't know if the fetus is alive or not. If the mother will be permanently harmed or die in giving birth, we can take the risk and hope it is not alive. But we shouldn't do that if the mother is just using abortion as birth control.
It is the religious social conservatives that are really throwing a wrench in the wheels of progress. Look at some of the major social issues that are affecting lots of people just in this country: abortion, stem cell research, gay and lesbian rights. The predominant arguments take place in the religious sphere. If the evangelical movement had not been so predominant and religious dissent towards embryos somehow being precious to god, we likely would have cured some serious auto immune disorders by now.
Those who are fanatical about their religion also apply to what I am saying, not just atheists, those who are agnostic, or muslims. I am not discriminating in my complaints, I think it's the right thing to do to respect others opinions.
I can see where your coming from, and I can see the problem your brother faces, but I really don't know a good solution to that problem since I live in America (Darn americans!) where religion is usually not held back by law. I guess I have no choice but to agree with you until I do some research!
Lol. Darn Americans indeed. But the more specific case I was reffering to were for example, female children from mainly Pakistani Muslim families not being allowed to go to school for religious reasons by their parents. I'm not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure that's against US law too, although correct me if I'm wrong on that.
I never said you had to be polite, i'm saying it's the right thing to do. If you don't want to be respectful then that's your problem. I'm not trying to force you to be a good person.
Can I just say that I do try to be polite and respectful, but I am just arguing for the right to be disrespectful. Good manners cost nothing is an adage I try to abide by, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to be respectful most of the time, especially when it comes to things like religion. Look at how many wars have been fought for religious reasons over the years.
Respect: It is a given that all debates here should be respectful. Yet that does not mean they will not offend some people or make them upset. Such is the way of life. In theory, I could say -anything- respectfuly no matter what the subject. I stick to the "If you would not say it to your grandmother in person, do not say it."
If people come here expecting -not- to feel a little outraged, upset or the like then they should not be here. That is why people debate: They feel strongly for one side of a topic or another.
Lol. Darn Americans indeed. But the more specific case I was reffering to were for example, female children from mainly Pakistani Muslim families not being allowed to go to school for religious reasons by their parents. I'm not 100% sure, but I am pretty sure that's against US law too, although correct me if I'm wrong on that.
I guess I can see your point, and can understand that religion does affect those around you, such as not being able to wear turbans to school, if that is what you were refering to. Of course, christian children don't need to wear a cross around their neck all the time, so I see no reason for muslims to have to wear turbans. (Unless there is a part of their religion I am leaving out?)
Can I just say that I do try to be polite and respectful, but I am just arguing for the right to be disrespectful. Good manners cost nothing is an adage I try to abide by, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect people to be respectful most of the time, especially when it comes to things like religion. Look at how many wars have been fought for religious reasons over the years.
I can tell you are trying to be polite and respectful from your posts, and I am not insulted in the least bit. I can also see why you don't expect people to be respectful all the time, but it's still good to be respectful yourself, even when other aren't.
As for religious wars, those are for fanatics who don't have an open mind to other peoples religions.
Other than that, I can agree with you on most things.
say it."I'mma going to jump into the middle of this all.
Respect: It is a given that all debates here should be respectful. Yet that does not mean they will not offend some people or make them upset. Such is the way of life. In theory, I could say -anything- respectfuly no matter what the subject. I stick to the "If you would not say it to your grandmother in person, do not
If people come here expecting -not- to feel a little outraged, upset or the like then they should not be here. That is why people debate: They feel strongly for one side of a topic or another.
Now that all of that is taken care of...carry on.
I can agree that somebody will always be offended, but I just like it when people try not to offend others. Even if they aren't successful, at least they made the effort.
There...is a fine line between "trying not to offend" and "using the kid gloves."
I will admit that I am rather blunt. Things I say may or may not offend people because I do not go out of my way to be either/or. I just lay it out in the most base form because otherwise I feel as if part of the impact is lost. And as we all know, impact is a major part of debates.
Now, intentionally trying to offend someone is just...dumb. XD And totally different.
There...is a fine line between "trying not to offend" and "using the kid gloves."
I will admit that I am rather blunt. Things I say may or may not offend people because I do not go out of my way to be either/or. I just lay it out in the most base form because otherwise I feel as if part of the impact is lost. And as we all know, impact is a major part of debates.
Now, intentionally trying to offend someone is just...dumb. XD And totally different.
The sad part is, that some people just come on these forums to insult other peoples religion. As I said before, as long as you try to say what you want to say in a respectful fashion then you are doing the right thing.
Religion will be a major factor in society and effect EVERYONE directly for quite a while. Religion is a psychological construct, and human's brains are basically hard-wired to believe in a higher power and/or creator. Therefore, as long as humans have human brains. religion WILL effect society. And there are some people who take their religion so seriously that any opinion that contradicts their religion would be deeply offensive to them. Their will be unintentional and intentional offense of religion as long as humans have human brains. Connotation is too widespread in people's minds these days. Emotion doesn't carry well over the internet. This is a deadly combination; there WILL be a lot of misconstrued statements in these forums, and that's inescapable. It's not necessarily 'religion hate' as you call it, but most likely a misconstrued statement. I admit, I have seen people say things (err. . .type them) that would be offensive. Saying things like 'there is something wrong with atheists as humans' (grammar and spelling corrected) and 'religion is something to be ridiculed and be taken seriously only as a threat.' everyone is entitled to these opinions, though the wording can be a bit acidic. People need to work on the phrasing a bit, but there is no 'religious hate' as you call it.
hmm how to put this...Example: Mormons build a cathedral or church whatever in rome aka the heart of the catholic religion. Its not very personal its just catholics believe different then mormons, and they ridicule that their religion is a bunch of nothing because some guy claims that he had a vision? Wheres the proof? mormons defend that and it turns into an argument.
Its never gonna end. The muslims will always hate the christians, vice versa
âBut I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, Luke27
Why do you say that? A lot of people are intolerant of gays, not just ultra-conservatives. A lot of people also oppose stem cell research for non-religious reasons (ie, they think it won't produce results). And while I would call abortion a moral issue, I wouldn't say it is a religious one necessarily.
All your points are true. But individuals who have a problem with a certain lifestyle aren't the ones able to oppose legislation. The reason I say these debates take place mostly in the religious sphere is because it is these religions' lobbying groups that are pushing for particular bans or sanctions against these social issues. All of these issues also have a moral component, but this does not imply religion's needing to be involved. We are at point now, philosophically, to where we can get a pretty decent set of ethical standards without the need of a god. Anything else on the fringe of our moral code, religious texts don't address. We shouldn't even have to consider arguments like "It's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" when discussing gay rights. Non-religion based opposition to these problems also don't have a leg to stand on. There are absolutely no cogent arguments that can be given against homosexuality. But within religious contexts, everything seems up for debate.
The fact is that the Roman Catholic Church in the past, any opposition it encounted, it kind of... got rid of it It's obviously not plausible for the vatican to institute another inquisition movement.
Obviously moving into a post-modernist society, where people start believing whatever they think is true for them, and not what the church is telling them; the church loses power. The church has always had the power to act conservative on all issues, because of its tight connection with government.
Whether anyone likes it or not, religion is a source of law (along with others). Whilst they no longer have the ability to control the issues they comment on, they still have an genuine concern from a religious standpoint, which isn't fair to be dismissed simply because it's from a religious institution.
I guess I can see your point, and can understand that religion does affect those around you, such as not being able to wear turbans to school, if that is what you were refering to. Of course, christian children don't need to wear a cross around their neck all the time, so I see no reason for muslims to have to wear turbans. (Unless there is a part of their religion I am leaving out?)
Turbans are a Sikh thing, I was reffering to girls having to wear full body burkhas to school because of their faith, and most often because of the wishes of their ultra-religious parents. Incidently there is nothing at all about Burkhas in the Qur'an, it is a relatively modern phenomenon.
The point being, that whether you like it or not, religion does affect people worldwide. The vast majority of the world's population believes in a deity or deities in some shape or form. It is therefore hardly surprising that religion affects so much.
I can tell you are trying to be polite and respectful from your posts, and I am not insulted in the least bit. I can also see why you don't expect people to be respectful all the time, but it's still good to be respectful yourself, even when other aren't.
I'd agree that manners are important, however if someone is blatantly ignorant or being offensive, it's not surprising they don't get respect. Thanks by the way.
As for religious wars, those are for fanatics who don't have an open mind to other peoples religions.
Over the years religion has caused death and destruction, and these sins weren';t committed by the majority. The Crusades, pogroms throughout Europe during the Middle Ages, the Catholic sponsored genocide of the indiginous south American peoples. The list goes on.
Where I live, many still have memories of the IRA bombing Harrods department store, which incidently, my dad was in the very day of the act. This act was caused by religious conflict in Northern Ireland, but still affected people in London. To sum up, religion does affect everyone.
