Forums → WEPR → Proud to be an American?

It seems they don't teach about American imperialism in schools.

When i was in high school, we spent a while learning about american imperialism.

There are very few countries that haven't done horrible things, some a lot worse than others. I mean, can anyone be completely proud to be from any country?

Few people are able to stand from an objective point and look at a situation. Opinions should be changed to fit facts, not the adjectives that prelude facts to opinions.

The United States has made some mistakes, what country hasn't, but it isn't right or justifiable to focus on those things and judge a nation based on that.

I've read a couple of pages of this topic and people saying that they are not proud to be an American often point to the War on Terror. I do not understand why people blame the American populus when it is really the bureaucracy at fault. Just thought I would throw that out there. I thought it was pretty obvious that Americans didn't like their own politicians?

The US has intervened in over 20 countries in the last century alone, including rigging of elections, sanctions, military intervention, overthrowing democratic governments, installing dictatorships, supporting dictatorships

In terms of installing dictatorships I can only see really one example in history and I think it was with helping Chavez and I can't remember which president did that. I'd have to google but don't really feel like it right now.

Now supporting dictatorships, that's an interesting one. Name one.

Military intervention is needed in some countries. If we were not in Iran right now Achmadinejad would have already nuked Israel. If America stopped acting as the Worlds police force Muslim Jihadism would likely take over the entire middle east, parts of Europe, and then begin the manufacturing of nukes within a year. But it's all just one big American agenda isn't it?

Overthrowing democratic governments, again and interesting statement. Name one.

Rigging of Elections. If you're talking about, Iran was it, then I don't think so.

You see, it is really easy to just throw around accusations and not have people question them and assume that your argument is true. However there was this one guy who I like to think was pretty smart and knew what he was doing considering he was one of our Founding Fathers. He said, "Question with boldness." Try to name him.

In terms of installing dictatorships I can only see really one example in history and I think it was with helping Chavez and I can't remember which president did that. I'd have to google but don't really feel like it right now.

I named twenty. But Ok.
Nicaragua, 1912. The US invaded it in 1912 and placed the dictator Anastasio Somaza.

Dominican Republic, 1916. US placed the dictator Rafael Leonidas who ruled with torture and executions for the next 30 years. Over 200,000 killed.

Now supporting dictatorships, that's an interesting one. Name one.

El Salvador, 1931. They supported Hernandez Martinez who installed anti-communist death squads and killed other dissidents. 40,000 dead.

You think what I'm saying is just accusations? These are well documented facts. I don't have time to fully respond right now and go over every imperialist act. Look it up yourself for now. Ill be back...

Wow... really... You're a funny one aren't you?

Nicaragua, 1912. The US invaded it in 1912 and placed the dictator Anastasio Somaza.

It wasn't an invasion. The US was trying to influence the production of the Nicaragua Canal and when the dictator, Zelaya, had Americans executed an issue arose. Don't forget that he also threatened to bomb a city. (That sounds like a big deal, but then again I probably have no idea what I'm talking about.) The Americans lead and insurrection under the justification of protecting American lives and property. When Zelaya resigned a year later marines stayed as an occupational force while a new family took power and help them through the instability until 1933. It was a good thing to considering there was later a 6 year guerilla war.

It wasn't the installation of a dictatorship. It was replacing a dictator with another. There was no establishment of a dictatorship and the destruction of any other form of government and no new form of government was established. Nice try bud...

El Salvador, 1931

Show me evidence of American involvement.

support is not the same as involvement

In that case I change my word of involvement to the murder of civilians.

lame

That really hurts... *crying face*

Military intervention is needed in some countries. If we were not in Iran right now Achmadinejad would have already nuked Israel. If America stopped acting as the Worlds police force Muslim Jihadism would likely take over the entire middle east, parts of Europe, and then begin the manufacturing of nukes within a year. But it's all just one big American agenda isn't it?

Military intervention only serves imperialist causes - it is not done for humanitarian aid. What US's "World Police" attitude has brought is death and despair.

Ironic when the United States is invading countries for having nukes but yet it has the largest supply of them...and on which a number of occasions has refused to lower them. (The Soviet Union itself tried to make several agreements with the US to negotiate a nuclear arms depletion. The European Union as well - US refused.)
This accumulation of wealth is actually what drives nations like North Korea to pursue long range weapons. -- Its seen as a defense of US imperialism!
The US has never attacked a nuclear armed state. When North Korea feels threatened by US hegemony (It was listed in the top 3 as "top terrorists states" and there was recent controversy of whether it should be placed back into the list of states sponsoring terrorism.) then acquiring nuclear power is a very sound strategy.

But wait, Ahmadinejad hasn't built any nukes. I think you mean the nuclear program which would provide its citizens with energy?

You might also be shocked to find out role the US played in arming and supporting the Muslim extremists.

Muslim Jihadism would likely take over the entire middle east, parts of Europe, and then begin the manufacturing of nukes within a year.

Didn't we already invade Iraq with the suspicion of WMD? You sound like Bush back in 2001.

It wasn't an invasion

Oh no just a few years of occupation.

The Americans lead and insurrection under the justification of protecting American lives and property.

Before Zelaya even threatened any American lives, the US was supporting the conservatives militants in opposition to Zelaya.
2 Americans were executed. Protecting American lives by sending troops to war? And what property does the US have in Nicaragua.

It was replacing a dictator with another. There was no establishment of a dictatorship and the destruction of any other form of government and no new form of government was established.

Zaleya was a dictator? He was the 49th president of Nicaragua, and made a number of progressive reforms like education. But of course, he went against US interests by not allowing foreign companies to exploit its natural resources.
America installed the puppet National Guard and replaced Zelaya with a dictator who became insanely rich by allowing US companies to exploit its land and its people.
As of other instances of installing dictatorships...

Iran, 1953. The CIA overthrow Iran's Mohammad Mosaddegh because he wanted to nationalize the oil companies. He was replaced by an emperor, and praised by the US government and by the media as a hero while he tortured and killed over 70,000 people.
Why?
The new dictator freely allowed the US to build military bases and let its Oil companies reap profits off its land.

Guatemala. Democratically elected president is ousted by CIA. In turn, taxes on US corporations were abolished and dissidents killed.

Ecuador. Democratically elected Velasco is replaced by CIA to a dictator.

Zaire. CIA overthrows socialist leader and replaces with dictator Sese Seko who tortured and killed dissidents. US supported him even while he made a personal profit of $5 billion while half the children in his country were starving.

Greece. CIA coup overthrows elected president and replaces it with a Nazi dictator followed by many human rights violation.

Bolivia. CIA helps a military coup and replaces a leftist president with Benzer who killed a few hundred dissidents and arrested 15,000 civilians.

Uganda. US helps in a coup where dictator Amin took power.

Chile. US supported Pinochet's coup of the elected, progressive leader Allende. They supported Pinochet's dictatorship with 300 million dollars.

Show me evidence of American involvement.

I did. US supported, financially and militarily, Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez's and his death squads in which 40,000 were killed.

Others...

Paraguay. Stroessner, a Nazi, gained power as a dictator and freely allowed US companies to exploit its natural resources. His regime is known for torture and corruption, yet the US gave it $146 million in aid.

Haiti (again). US supported the dictator Duvalier economically and militarily.

Philippines. US supports dictator Marcos who arrested 60,000 Filipinos and raised the debt from 2 billion to 30 billion.

Vietnam. US supported Suharto, who ordered eliminations of village populations and later on killed 200,000. Not to include the 3 million dead from the Vietnam war.

Rigging of Elections. If you're talking about, Iran was it, then I don't think so.

Iran? No...the US was involved in Iran back in 1951 when it overthrew its president and later during the Iran-Iraq war when it supported Saddam Hussein with chemical weapons.

But Bulgaria - yes. The United States provided 2 million dollars to the ring wing parties in Bulgaria in its first democratic election. The Bulgarian Socialist Party still won. The US retaliated by starting a de-stabilization campaign.

But wait, Ahmadinejad hasn't built any nukes. I think you mean the nuclear program which would provide its citizens with energy?

If you believe that lie you are quite delusional. If that were the case they would accept the energy grade uranium that has been offered. Instead what they are doing is processing weapons grade uranium and the longer they continue the closer Israel comes to war and bombing their @$$3$.

Ipwn, you'd better be back for good. AG's had a shortage of conservative people lately.

Well I got really frustrated with all of the liberals here. Then school started and I got wrapped up in being class treasurer and being on the cross country team and becoming part of varsity track. It all became a little overwhelming and I never had time. However I must say it is kinda fun to be back, but it is still frustrating nonetheless.

To the boy's post.

Military intervention only serves imperialist causes - it is not done for humanitarian aid.

Says you. Now go tell that to Israel and see how they feel about that one.

(The Soviet Union itself tried to make several agreements with the US to negotiate a nuclear arms depletion. The European Union as well - US refused.)

Because everyone in all governments of the world are honest and good people who, when they sing an agreement, will cary it out to the letter... The Soviet Union would never give up a single nuke. Never.

America installed the puppet National Guard and replaced Zelaya with a dictator who became insanely rich by allowing US companies to exploit its land and its people.

The US was there in the first place due to the construction of the Nicaragua Canal. That could boost trading opportunities and also help Nicaragua. Where'd you get the part about exploiting land and people? If you we're really biased you could say they "exploit" the canal but dang that is quite a stretch.

I did. US supported, financially and militarily,

Evidence is not just repeating what you said and making up numbers. Insert 2 credits and try again kid.

But wait, Ahmadinejad hasn't built any nukes. I think you mean the nuclear program which would provide its citizens with energy?

Now you've gone from being naive to ignorant. And in just a few days!
That is really something. If you honestly believe that they want the facilities for energy then you are one stupid cookie. (lol get my joke there) Anyway, they want nukes, that's why they built the facilities. Accept reality and stop prancing around in your world of rainbows, butterflies, sunshine, and lollipops.

Wake up.

All Americans should be proud of who they are.

Thank you. Finally someone who lives in the real world.

I <3 U