I'm just going to throw this out there... Call me crazy, or correct me, but...
It just seems like when it comes to controversial issues that could possibly conflict with certain religious views, all religious arguments are immediately classified as false, untrue, mumbo-jumbo.
Is it not okay to express your own personal beliefs about a certain issue based on what your religion says without being shunned and regarded as a closed minded fool?
Is it not okay to use the bible, the torah, the Koran, or any other religious book as your argument?
Most people as it seems on these forums would argue that you are not allowed to argue with those things because not all people believe in the same religion.
But couldn't I just as easily debunk all of your arguments because I don't believe in the same things you do?
I suppose the point I really want to get down to is why religion seems to be so widely unaccepted on these forums?
Well, being able to spell atheist correctly is a start.
A decent argument should be based on logic and evidence, not on belief.
You cannot impose laws and rules affecting everybody purely based on belief, no matter how much you want to. That's pretty much what America was founded upon.
So yea, religion should stay the fuck out of my liberty.
Most mods are atheist, with the exception of Estel. I guess some users just want to look good in front of the eyes of people in authority. I, myself, admit to having doubts of my own religion on these forums. I guess religios people know to sttay away from stuff like this, because it can lead them to sin. I try to stay away, but sometimes I fail, and even worse, I get put down. I guess being religios isn't cool anymore. lol
No, you don't have to be. The problem with a debate or forum, or even essay setting is that put out your postulate or point of discussion, and then you back it up with evidence. It's a point of.. *rational* discussion. The problem is, atheists don't see following the bible or torah or koran or any other religious holy book as 'rational'. There's no proof for the stuff, so we don't subscribe to it. So if you want to take irrational evidence, and use it in a rational debate setting, then it falls flat on its face. So.. in other words, they can certainly enjoy debate on armor games.. if they enjoy being corralled into that one point. I'm Christian, and I believe something on faith, and that's that.
You're certainly allowed to argue with it, but secularists on the other side of such debates dismiss the arguments because we know they're entirely faith based, and not *fact* based, and think they're silly.
And one thing I will point out - it's boring as an Atheist to true and debate that too - faith based religious arguments do not waiver; there's no concession in a discussion no matter *how* much evidence you provide to the contrary; they're still going to believe the same old stuff. It's just about as productive as talking to a brick wall.
You cannot impose laws and rules affecting everybody purely based on belief, no matter how much you want to. That's pretty much what America was founded upon.
Umm no it wasn't. America was founded be people who wanted you to speak your ideas. Not to shut up and be quiet when an atheist walks in the room. Plus, most of the founding fathers were religious, so your statement is pretty much phail, if I'm understanding you correctly.
No, you don't have to be. The problem with a debate or forum, or even essay setting is that put out your postulate or point of discussion, and then you back it up with evidence. It's a point of.. *rational* discussion. The problem is, atheists don't see following the bible or torah or koran or any other religious holy book as 'rational'. There's no proof for the stuff, so we don't subscribe to it. So if you want to take irrational evidence, and use it in a rational debate setting, then it falls flat on its face. So.. in other words, they can certainly enjoy debate on armor games.. if they enjoy being corralled into that one point. I'm Christian, and I believe something on faith, and that's that.
I think what he means is can't we use words of wisdom from the Bible. We can't say Jesus is God because the Bible says so, obviously. But perhaps some biblical reasoning, such as (I don't remember where this was or if this is worded exactly right)
How can you tell your borther that he has a splinter in his eye without perceiving the wooden log in your own eye. First pull out the log in your eye and then see clearly the splinter in his eye.
In other words, don't judge. I think that was well said, and has nothing to do with faith or belief.
Anyway, I agree with you on what you said at the end. That's generally where I need to stick my faith on Christianity during debates, and that's perfectly fine. It also helpes me open up to the arguments of my computer peers, without having to necessarily agree.
There are no aethists on armorgames. Question answered.
Well, being able to spell atheist correctly is a start.
Okay, so I accidentally added an extra "e" to the word, don't be smartasses. You can deal with it, you are big girls and boys.
You cannot impose laws and rules affecting everybody purely based on belief
But a lot of laws in our system are based of the beliefs of the people in power and the people voting for the laws. For example, The Government obviously believes that marijuana is a dangerous drug. Because of this, they made it illegal. Everything is based on beliefs, granted they might not be religious, they are still beliefs nonetheless.
I guess some users just want to look good in front of the eyes of people in authority.
Since when does not being religious "look good" in front of the mods here? I'll believe whatever the hell I want whether it looks good in front of them or not.
Not to shut up and be quiet when an atheist walks in the room.
It almost seems as if you are putting Atheists on a higher level than those who are not. Since when is this true? Atheists are just as equal as you are me.
But a lot of laws in our system are based of the beliefs of the people in power and the people voting for the laws. For example, The Government obviously believes that marijuana is a dangerous drug. Because of this, they made it illegal. Everything is based on beliefs, granted they might not be religious, they are still beliefs nonetheless.
You're trying to use the syntactical definition to aid in your argument. You seem to realize that not all beliefs are comparable to religious beliefs- I won't argue the specific example because it has no rational support, but there are other examples. By your rather dubious 'logic' everything would be a belief- and many beliefs are backed up with verified sources. Religion is not. Religion only tries and fails to back up itself. Religious beliefs are not comparable with many other types of beliefs because religious beliefs are based on faith, not necessairly opinion or theory or fact.
Alt is right: The 'belief' that marijuana is dangerous and should be illegal is based on collected evidence regarding the effect of the psychotropic drug. It's speculated that trying MJ will make someone more willing to try other illegal drugs; along with a lot of social stigma with regards to smoking it and turning into a pothead or dirty hippie or whatever stereotype you want to dig up.
There are others however, that have different opinions, that are also based on those, and other facts - but they come to different conclusions with regards to them. Some think control should be in the hands of the government, and others think control should be in the hands of the individual. The point is, that's a real discussion, with both sides presenting evidence for their own case, with dissenting opinions.
One thing you can do while having a rational debate with someone is ask *yourself* the question:
"What can my opponent say or do to change my mind?"
That's when you know you're thinking about the subjects openly, and not just blindly following a point of view - and I should add; some atheists fall into that as well, as they think of it as.. popular or rebellious, or as a religion, and I would disagree with them also, as it's not something based off of critical thinking, skepticism, and facts.
Interesting. And I did literally 'lol' when I saw the title, just because I have seen so many arguments on here of atheists vs. religion.
It just seems like when it comes to controversial issues that could possibly conflict with certain religious views, all religious arguments are immediately classified as false, untrue, mumbo-jumbo.
Is it not okay to express your own personal beliefs about a certain issue based on what your religion says without being shunned and regarded as a closed minded fool?
I don't think so. It is when people say something like 'because the religion says so I believe it!' To me, yes, that is close-minded. But it is close-minded because they have not even bothered to formulate their own argument, and are just going off what others have told them. I think that in a debate, you need to be able to defend your position with something more than 'because they said so.'
Is it not okay to use the bible, the torah, the Koran, or any other religious book as your argument?
Depends on the argument. Philosophy, yea, that would work. Science? No. I think that with particular science discussions, the field has progressed so far that the bible is basically outdated when it comes to science. Yes, it has its merits. But they did not have the knowledge back then that we do now about science, and so using it as an argument against something like global warming does not seem like a credible argument.
I think that one of the greatest things about the World Events forum is the fact that it gets people to debate and think critically about issues. This can be done from the point of view of religion and atheism. It is not necessarily what you are arguing about, but how you are arguing it.
