I'm just going to throw this out there... Call me crazy, or correct me, but...
It just seems like when it comes to controversial issues that could possibly conflict with certain religious views, all religious arguments are immediately classified as false, untrue, mumbo-jumbo.
Is it not okay to express your own personal beliefs about a certain issue based on what your religion says without being shunned and regarded as a closed minded fool?
Is it not okay to use the bible, the torah, the Koran, or any other religious book as your argument?
Most people as it seems on these forums would argue that you are not allowed to argue with those things because not all people believe in the same religion.
But couldn't I just as easily debunk all of your arguments because I don't believe in the same things you do?
I suppose the point I really want to get down to is why religion seems to be so widely unaccepted on these forums?
Yes, because it seems like all the Atheists are the only ones who ever debate, so most of the time for us religious people it is like 5 against 1.
I don't think that is necessarily it. If someone can make an intelligent and well formulated religious argument, I am willing to listen to it and respect it. It is just when people go around waving religion around as fact without any opinion of their own that I can't take it seriously. Religion isn't the factor here (at least not for me), it's if people can think critically and come up with intelligent arguments.
To answer the title of the thread, you have to be an intelligent debater or a friendly blogger to enjoy debate. I've found that while many Christians have intelligent arguments, they tend to drown them in religion, thus leading to bashing. Don't even mention religion unless it's in a religious thread. Intelligent debaters do well because they either win an argument, or they find somebody intelligent to have discussions with. Friendly bloggers win because they don't bash other people and then they get respect. These are also good tips for people without too many friends, those who are lonely.
You're lending to the validity of your stereotype. I do not respect that.
you dont respect my opinion, then i cant respect you.
this is a debate, and if you cant respect other peoples opinions, or atleast keep your slandering to yourself, then i frankly dont see why you should even be here.
you dont respect my opinion, then i cant respect you.
this is a debate, and if you cant respect other peoples opinions, or atleast keep your slandering to yourself, then i frankly dont see why you should even be here.
You missed the point entirely. . . .
My point is that people who aren't Christian do NOT remarks like that. I respect your opinion, but it's not exactly something people like to have said to them. Not only did that statement force your belief upon another, it implied that you are better than a non-Christian because of your belief. There is not a single person here who will appreciate that in the slightest.
Before you overreact, please make sure you understand the point of the reply. It leads to misunderstandings like this.
And as for me not being here. . .you oviously further misunderstood my point. There was no slandering, no disrespect towards your opinion, just a message meaning that people hate it when statements like that are madetowards them.
well, I've got a lot to say, but I won't get to till tomorrow because of time... just be ready for a WoT... I've got a whole lot to say... (nothing negative, just a lot...)
I think that you don't have to be an atheist to enjoy debate. If you support religion then that may give you more support in some of your debates. If you are an atheist I guess you would enjoy debate just as much as the next guy.
I think that you don't have to be an atheist to enjoy debate. If you support religion then that may give you more support in some of your debates. If you are an atheist I guess you would enjoy debate just as much as the next guy.
The question was more or less "Can you use religion to support your argument?" I say biblical wisdom is okay, like not to judge and to be humble and stuff like that, but when it gets to the point where you must be a part of a religion to agree with what is being said, it goes over the line. But I would also argue that it is a weakness. In my opinion, best not to mention it unless you're in a religious thread.
I'll just throw in my opinion to back up what has already been said, since I am one of the aforementioned atheists that debates here.
Arguments based on religious documents such as the Bible, or the Vedas, or Talmud, etc, are only valid - and only minutely so - in arguments about things such as philosophy.
When we talk about things like evolution or science classes, it is quite impossible to use the Bible to argue scientifically. A 4,000 year old book cannot, and should not be used to argue.
So no, you don't have to be atheist, but you do have to be rational and intelligent to contribute evenly to a logical debate.
Is it not okay to use the bible, the torah, the Koran, or any other religious book as your argument?
Well no, because, they have no COLD, HARD, PROOF to them. So it's like me pulling out a book that I could call a bible.... uhm.... lemme get one from my bookshelf........
okay, it's like me calling my garfield books a collection of bibles. As far as science, history, and time is concerned, the bible is a storybook. An epic, controversial and well written storybook.
okay, it's like me calling my garfield books a collection of bibles. As far as science, history, and time is concerned, the bible is a storybook. An epic, controversial and well written storybook.
Stay with me for a second. Children's books, while not good for scientific facts, have good morals, much like the Bible. So you can use philosophical standpoints from the Bible, but not the facts that are only supported by the Bible.
Of course you don't have to be Atheist. There are plenty of people on here who debate from the religious side of the fence, and I think that they enjoy it. Even if it is a bit more rough, they don't have a whole group of people agreeing with them most the time. Usually though it's just the extremists and fundamentalists who get torn apart.
Stay with me for a second. Children's books, while not good for scientific facts, have good morals, much like the Bible. So you can use philosophical standpoints from the Bible, but not the facts that are only supported by the Bible.
sorry, excuse me for not being more specific. I was talking about something that needs scientific proof, or a theory relating to astronomy of sorts. Like the Mayan Calendar, for example. Philosophy actually plays little part with it.
