Yes, I'm submitting this because I don't see any currently active threads on the issue :P
I'll just leave two statements that probe a little deeper than face value:
a) Exactly what motivates the military's policy here? One must admit that "don't ask, don't tell" is definitely less discriminatory than "search and destroy", but are there any grounds for the military to somehow be run with standards separate from the rest of civilised society?
b) On an individual level regardless of the above, is Choi's position compromised beyond repair? Has he sacrificed his military career for the sake of a political campaign? It would most definitely be construed as an act of defiance against authority and policy.
Not only should there be no GAYs in the Military, I think Women should not be allowed in. Only women civilian contracters should be allowed.
The reason: It kills moral. Having women in a military environment breeds discrimination, mistrust, and internal conflict. You do not need to be thinking about these things when you are being shot at.
He says he's basically being fired for telling the truth about who he is.
I agree with the above quote from the article posted by Strop. The number of willing service men and women who have been discharged because they are gay is sad in my opinion. I don't agree with the "don't ask don't tell" policy but unfortunately I see potential danger in lifting it. I shall explain where I believe the danger is. Sorry but it's going to take awhile.
I know quite a few guys that have gone into the military, one being my cousin. I have no siblings so my cousin was the closest thing I ever had to a brother and it was really hard for me to see him go into the Army (he started bootcamp the day the U.S. invaded Iraq). It was even harder for me to talk to him when he came back from his first tour. I understand that being in a combat zone has a dramatic effect on a person but what bothered me most was that when he left for boot he was a polite and respectful person (if sometimes silly) when he got back that person was completely gone. The first conversation I had with him upon his return he asked me "What have you been doing lately, besides..." and then he said my boyfriend's name. I will not explain what is statement implies since I find it to be unnessecary and if you don't get it then I am not the one who should be explaining it to you. It offended me very deeply bcause I wasn't and it was the kind of foul joke he never would have made before he left. Unfortunately I have had similiar experiances with many of the guys I knew growing up that decided to go into the military after high school. It may not be true in all cases but I get the feeling that from the moment they reach boot they are force fed these macho manly-man mentalities. I only know one girl whose gone into the military and I have not seen her since so I don't know how it affected her. The most derogatory and sexist statements I have ever heard have mostly come from the mouths of those who have been in military service. As I said this is all from my personal experiances so others may feel differently. Another thing that worries me is the number of sexual assaults being reported by women and men in the military (3 articles (1)(2)(3)). If statistics about sexual assaults (stats) remain constant within the military environment there are a large number of these that go unreported. I know all of this seems sort of irrelevent but I'll tell you why I think it is relevent. If the "don't ask don't tell" policy was lifted I think it would put openly gay soldiers at serious risk. I don't nessecarily mean risk of sexual assault but of being attacked because of thier sexual orientation. A lot of my fears regarding this comes from my own experiance the macho manly military attitude I described and part of it comes from the awareness of internal violance in the military. I don't like "don't ask don't tell" but I fear the consequences of abolishing it.
Well that pretty much sums up my opinion on the subject people can feel free to totally ignore it or tear it to shreads or even agree with it if they like. You may feel free to be annoyed with me for writing such a long post too if you like but I felt the need to explain my feelings about this.
It was even harder for me to talk to him when he came back from his first tour
Honestly, the man was weak. For him to allow the military to change him was his choice. I have been in the Army for 14 years with 3 tours, and served in 6 units, and I haven't let it change my personality. But I suppose it's all about who you call friends.
Another thing that worries me is the number of sexual assaults being reported
That's just statistics. You have probably the same percent of assaults outside of the military.
I think it is relevent. If the "don't ask don't tell" policy was lifted I think it would put openly gay soldiers at serious risk.
The policy is there to allow gays in the military. Only if you are openly gay are you kicked out. It has nothing to do with gay bashing. It being lifted would allow anyone to be kicked out just on suspicion.
I am pretty sure there is plenty gay people who actually wants to serve their country, and these will not be able to, because the military still is against it.
They can join Black Water. Or get a military contract. Both pay better anyways.
Not only should there be no GAYs in the Military, I think Women should not be allowed in. Only women civilian contracters should be allowed.
The reason: It kills moral. Having women in a military environment breeds discrimination, mistrust, and internal conflict. You do not need to be thinking about these things when you are being shot at.
Wait, so removing a group of people isn't discrimination because you're trying to prevent discrimination? Kinda backwards... Why should a women be any less trusted than a man? Any women who makes it through training to be proficient enough to join the army would have to have the same capabilities of any other soldier, so that's not the issue. If its any issue of women being harassed in the military, that's a valid point, but why the hell should that be enough to prevent them from enlisting?
They can join Black Water. Or get a military contract. Both pay better anyways.
Black Waters been re-named after that issue with the civilians they killed, and I'm fairly certain they'd face the same discrimination in a military organization like that.
Not only should there be no GAYs in the Military, I think Women should not be allowed in. Only women civilian contracters should be allowed.
That is somewhat distasteful. My mom could kick anybodies a*s in the military, and she did. For 8 years. So if you don't like that women can serve better than men, then maybe you should take a look at some peoples records.
That's just statistics. You have probably the same percent of assaults outside of the military.
True but the military has always seemed to try to claim higher standards then your average civilian group.
The policy is there to allow gays in the military. Only if you are openly gay are you kicked out. It has nothing to do with gay bashing. It being lifted would allow anyone to be kicked out just on suspicion.
So "don't ask don't tell" is there so that gays can be in the military but if anyone knows they are gay they can't be. I'm sorry but that's just stupid. What does gender or sexual orientation have to do with a persons ability to serve their country?
The reason: It kills moral. Having women in a military environment breeds discrimination, mistrust, and internal conflict. You do not need to be thinking about these things when you are being shot at.
The only reason that it breeds discrimination, mistrust, and internel conflict is because of men who are unable to accept that women are just as capable as they are. It is a personal choice to discriminate and mistrust female soldiers. If you make that choice it is no ones fault but your own. If they were to allow those who are openly gay to remain in the military they would be in danger because of just those kinds of attitudes.
Honestly, the man was weak. For him to allow the military to change him was his choice. I have been in the Army for 14 years with 3 tours, and served in 6 units, and I haven't let it change my personality. But I suppose it's all about who you call friends.
Maybe he was weak, but all that tells me is that you must have been sexist before you went in.
Of the three articles you've posted on sports, none of them address how the players on the team feel - to your original statement:
No army wants gay people and no sport team likes having gay athletes.
Only one of them dealt with a coach that was openly homophobic, the other two were simply coaches that didn't care to comment on the matter, and fans who use the word 'oof'.
As for the first part of it, since the study shows that there are absolutely people who don't care or agree that gays should serve in the military, your assertion that *no* army wants gays is inaccurate.
Not only should there be no GAYs in the Military, I think Women should not be allowed in. Only women civilian contracters should be allowed.
The reason: It kills moral. Having women in a military environment breeds discrimination, mistrust, and internal conflict. You do not need to be thinking about these things when you are being shot at.
I agree. For thousands of years, gays and women fighting in an army was a seldom issue and, mostly, most soldiers were straight men. I wont go into the women part, but gay people havent been a large part of armies. Yes, there were gay soldiers in WWII, but, i think, is only a handful of them and only 1 WWII veteran addmitted it.
But there are a lot of problems with gay people being in the army. Of coarse, like u guys said, it brings up distraction, moral discomfort, and just discrimination. I know if i was in the military, i wouldnt want a gay person to be sleeping, living, showering, or even close to me. Im creeped out by them.
So, just ommitting gay people from the army would be better, or atleast segregating them. Im really against them, im sorry, but i dont know how these people live with themselves. But they are human beings and should not be mistreated. I wont ever shake their hands nor will I ever think that they should be granted their gay marrage rights. They should not be in the military, i think. They should be segregated, and i know some people are against me, but i dont think that they should be granted these rights. Im sorry, i just cant stand them.
For thousands of years, gays and women fighting in an army was seldom to be found and an seldom issue.
Well, women is easy to tell, but I think you mean openly gay men. And openly gay men were hard to find... at all seeing as religious persecution would keep them either in bad shape, or dead. So.. yeah, there's no surprise they'd keep that to themselves.
but gay people havent been a large part of armies. Yes, there were gay soldiers in WWII, but, i think, is only a handful of them and only 1 WWII veteran addmitted it.
So, just ommitting gay people from the army would be better, or atleast segregating them. Im really against them, im sorry, but i dont know how these people live with themselves. But they are human beings and should not be mistreated. I wont ever shake their hands nor will I ever think that they should be granted their gay marrage rights. They should not be in the military, i think. They should be segregated, and i know some people are against me, but i dont think that they should be granted these rights. Im sorry, i just cant stand them.
Really? Do you have any good reason not to like homosexuals? No. You sound just like a modern Strom Thurmond. Put you in their shoes for a moment. Imagine me saying I can't stand Muslims and that they should be segregated. It's the same principle of discrimination - and it would definitely piss you off, no? Homosexuals are people too, and you're just being childish.
Sorry, there's one problem with my analogy. You can choose your religion.
Really? Do you have any good reason not to like homosexuals? No. You sound just like a modern Strom Thurmond. Put you in their shoes for a moment. Imagine me saying I can't stand Muslims and that they should be segregated. It's the same principle of discrimination - and it would definitely piss you off, no? Homosexuals are people too, and you're just being childish.
Sorry, there's one problem with my analogy. You can choose your religion.
Knew it was gonna start something like this. I know, i just dont like them.
And it is wrong to not like em? I think what i think, i dont want think they should be in the army and should be segregated there. I PERSONALLY THINK THAT they can choose to be gay or not, but again, its a thing that we dont know. With me being a muslim, i have been discriminated all my life, and yea it does piss me off. Every time i go to a mosque, theres police all around me and one time even invaded a mosque near by. And you know how we are treated in this country. If your muslim, they dont like you. I felt that kind of pain. And i felt the pain of my race too. Some of my relatives died just cuz they were hispanics. I FELT THAT PAIN.
With gays, i dont like em at all. Thats what i say. I think that they shouldnt be in the army and shouldnt be granted their marrage rights. But do you see me going out there committing crimes against them? No. And didnt i say: But they are human beings and should not be mistreated. So i know they are human beings too. I just dont like em and i think that they shouldnt be near the straight. Thats my mind. And i know im not gonna go out and complain that they should be separate. No im just gonna aviod them, even tho i dont like em.
You're kidding right...Here's some interesting information for you: Pop. Stats. 1, Pop. Stats. 2, Historical Info. 1, Historical Info. 2, Historical Info. 3.
Cant open it cuz of my internet, but i dont matter. We could conclude that there is only a few gay soldiers in armies before and now.
