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Sebi
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Sebi
662 posts
Nomad

Do you believe in god?! I dont believe in him!!! Please could you explain me how people could believe in god?!

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TSL3_needed
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TSL3_needed
5,579 posts
Nomad

Dude, you said 'I guess' after making a bunch of statements that refer to God, and also responded to my post, which isn't sarcastic what-so-ever, maybe in your mind, but maybe you just don't think things through before you post.


Say what I said in a sarcastic tone. If you don't understand what I said then, then you don't understand sarcasm very well.
quakingphear
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quakingphear
410 posts
Peasant

[quoteIt's all about faith, man. I mean, if a miraculous events happen that nobody can explain, even a skeptical or scientist I believe that to be the work of God. If there is no proof otherwise, simply because you believe that God didn't do it, doesn't mean that he didn't.
If I was ever considering to becoming an Atheist, I would probably end up not becoming one. Why? I hate how Atheists believe that after you die, you're just a dead body, it's just nothingness. I'd like to believe that there is something better waiting for you on the other side.[/quote]
Yeah totally. But there is one saying that really helps me out when Im getting skeptical. Marcus Aurellius said it. "He who fears death fears the loss of sensation. But if you have no sensation, neither will you feel any harm; and yet if you aquire another sensation, you will be a different kind of being and you will not cease to live." So basically, if nothing happens when you die, you won't care anymore anyway.

LadyTurtleToes
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LadyTurtleToes
310 posts
Nomad

I've decided I'm giving up on this thread. I haven't been keeping up and since I'm an agnostic (all be it one that tends to favor a scientific view) I think that everyone is entitled to believe in whatever they want to, be it god or googlism. Though I personally don't understand religion at all I don't hold anything against those that choose to follow it, as long as their aren't going to try to convince me that I will never find happiness unless I join them in their faith.

Talo
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Talo
945 posts
Nomad

I don't really pick the scientific view, as much as the common sense one. That being said, I don't believe anything I can't see. If you want to buy a bridge in London, I'll sell it to you for $1000. The bridge makes about $600 a year in tolls, so it's a great investment.

HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

there are some things of my faith I simply refuse to believe, like that the Earth was created in 7 days. That's just ridiculous.


Then you're not really a christian. And again.. saying the old testament is only for jews is completely wrong. How many times do I have to quote the passages from the new testament with explicit instructions not to ignore the old material:

(Luke 16:17)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."


It's all about faith, man. I mean, if a miraculous events happen that nobody can explain, even a skeptical or scientist I believe that to be the work of God.


So, what miraculous events are you referring to that science was unable to explain? And why do you believe it to be the work of god just because *you* don't have an explanation for it? Just recently that youtube video with the sewer worms was coated with people slathering to call it 'aliens' because they had *no* idea what it was. Well, it's just a colony of worms. It's been documented, people have seen it before - just because you're ignorant of the facts, does not make it something else.

Therefore, he will never really know what we want in life.


Because we are given free-will, how the hell can he prevent us from doing any wrong?


But what about god's 'master plan' for us all? Is god so feeble then that he can't do anything to effect our reality? If he can answer prayers and make things happen, then surely he can act on his own to change things, even if that results in people dying or suffering.

You can't have it both ways. You can't have an all powerful all-seeing god that can listen to everyone on the planet and grant prayers, and on the other side have a god that can't do anything to stop violence & hate. I'm pretty sure if a girl was getting raped & murdered, she'd be praying pretty hard for someone to save her, but I guess god doesn't want to mess with the free will of the rapist, right? And families praying for a family member in surgery? Either god makes a decision to have them die, or let them live - or is it the 'free will' of their dying organs that he can't mess with? This is one of the problems with god - it's so contradictory & people of faith change their minds about what god is and what god can do at every turn.
the__vampire
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the__vampire
181 posts
Nomad

The best in my oppinion is Bhuddism


It's about being a better person and telling others to be better. Its not about worshiping some all knowing being (god).It tells u that stuff like money isnt important. It says only your needs not your wants are important. It's about making a effort to improve other people's lives. It is also about accepting the world has suffering being aware of it. It is about being not voilent and nonhurtfull about being harmless.


That is why I think it is better than some other religions

CaptainSamoa
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CaptainSamoa
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Nomad

Then you're not really a christian.


YES, this make TOTAL SENSE. Because I don't believe ONE thing from my faith, I am not Christian. Do you realize that I am probably not the only one? So I guess those people aren't really Christian. I have been Baptized, received Communion, have received Reconciliation, and have been Confirmed. It's going to take more than "I don't believe that the world was created in 7 days" to make my faith void.

And again.. saying the old testament is only for jews is completely wrong.


I never said that. I said that most of the laws that were made in the Old Testament were made specifically for Jews. I even said that most Jewish people believe that the Old Testament is widely misinterpreted. And they only use the first 5 books of the OT.

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid."


Once again, I have to mention that that might not be what Luke actually wrote. If you noticed, I said that church DECIDES what to put into the bible. Do you honestly think that people can go to hell for wearing clothing woven of two kinds of material? I mean, some of that stuff could be made up for all we know. Like I said, most Christians do not take everything in the bible literal. The people who wrote it were men, mortal men, so how would Luke know if that was right or not? Did God tell him this? I highly doubt that. This may sound like I'm questioning my faith, but that is a good thing. It helps make it stronger (although I am pretty low on faith).

Just recently that youtube video with the sewer worms was coated with people slathering to call it 'aliens' because they had *no* idea what it was. Well, it's just a colony of worms. It's been documented, people have seen it before - just because you're ignorant of the facts, does not make it something else.


What the hell does that colony of worms have to do with anything? This is not a miraculous event, especially if people have seen something similar NUMEROUS times already. I'm talking about when there is a lone survivor of a plane crash or when a child playing the street is about to get ran over, but all of a sudden the car dies (this is simply cannot be coincidence, most don't die when they are actually moving, unless it was a piece of crap or if it was recently taken on a cross country road trip).

You can't have it both ways. You can't have an all powerful all-seeing god that can listen to everyone on the planet and grant prayers, and on the other side have a god that can't do anything to stop violence & hate. I'm pretty sure if a girl was getting ***** & murdered, she'd be praying pretty hard for someone to save her, but I guess god doesn't want to mess with the free will of the rapist, right? And families praying for a family member in surgery? Either god makes a decision to have them die, or let them live - or is it the 'free will' of their dying organs that he can't mess with? This is one of the problems with god - it's so contradictory & people of faith change their minds about what god is and what god can do at every turn.


As hard as this is to believe, yes. God cannot mess with free will of ANYONE. Even a rapist. To give free will to everyone but criminals wouldn't be right, even though they have bad intentions because God loves everyone.. Even Hitler, even though he is probably rotting in hell for everything that he has done. That's where rapists and murderers go. Hell. They raped and murdered someone, so now they will suffer ten times worse for what they did.

It would not make sense at all if every time someone went into surgery, God saved them. This is a failed argument, because there is no logic behind it. Everyone's gotta die someday. Some people are just meant to die and others not. It's the surgeons job, not God's.
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

YES, this make TOTAL SENSE. Because I don't believe ONE thing from my faith, I am not Christian. Do you realize that I am probably not the only one? So I guess those people aren't really Christian. I have been Baptized, received Communion, have received Reconciliation, and have been Confirmed. It's going to take more than "I don't believe that the world was created in 7 days" to make my faith void.


No. You're not, and neither are they. Either the book is holy and sacred and has to be followed in the manner in which it instructs, or it has flaws & cannot be the word of god. You don't get to pick and choose which things are holy and which things are not - you're not god after all. I mean, you could pick and choose (and you do) - but don't call yourself a christian.

I said that most of the laws that were made in the Old Testament were made specifically for Jews. I even said that most Jewish people believe that the Old Testament is widely misinterpreted.


Not for 'jews' for the chosen people. It does say in numerous passages in the new testament to follow the teachings of the old testament - not "Oh, that stuff is just for jews, so don't worry about it." As for it being widely misinterpreted, then how are you supposed to know what's holy and what's not? What if you're following rules and edicts that you think are holy, but you've got them all wrong? You'll wind up in Hell with the rest of us. I say, throw out the book altogether. You confirm my argument in your second paragraph -

that church DECIDES what to put into the bible. Do you honestly think that people can go to hell for wearing clothing woven of two kinds of material?


No, of course I don't. But then I don't believe in fictional places & follow the rules of a hokey religion that's thousands of years old. They did though - that's why it's in the book.

What the hell does that colony of worms have to do with anything?


Did you read the bit about people claiming it to be aliens? The point was that people will claim things they have no understanding of as 'aliens' or 'god' or whatever fancy they have. If they have a lucky number '42' they will see it every time it comes up as a good thing, and dismiss it every time it's a bad thing.

I'm talking about when there is a lone survivor of a plane crash or when a child playing the street is about to get ran over, but all of a sudden the car dies (this is simply cannot be coincidence, most don't die when they are actually moving, unless it was a piece of crap or if it was recently taken on a cross country road trip).


They're not coincidence, but they're not god either. Factor in all of the plane crashes where there are more then one survivor, or no survivors. Factor in all of the kids that get run over... or the car brakes in time, or swerves out of the way. Now, factor in the odds of there being a lone survivor in a plane crash, or the engine dying on a car (although that would probably be worse in some cars as the brakes would go with it...). Point is, those things have to happen sometime, because they are possibilities, and in the realm of probability. You'll notice they don't happen all the time, but kids playing in the street & cars failing are things that happen, and as a result, at some point, they things that will likely happen together at one time or another. It doesn't mean 'god' had anything to do with it.

This is a failed argument, because there is no logic behind it.


I couldn't have said it better myself. And not for my heart surgery analogy - I mean your argument.
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
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Nomad

Not necessarily indeed - but there's a flaw with your other statement regarding life in other galaxies (or even more life in this one) we have an example to compare to. I mean, there's life on this planet. Is it such a stretch to consider a possibility of life elsewhere? Not so much. True, we don't have evidence for this other life, but it is very plausible. It makes sense. An all-powerful god however, we have no plausible evidence for at all. There isn't any evidence either way on the tooth fairy either; It's not a good argument for religion, much less sticking to the middle ground.


The possibility of life elsewhere is due to mathematical probability. It's still however just logic, and not evidence.

Hidden:

I admire your quest for logic, but that only proves that you should be as far from religion, beliefs and faith as possible. You simply have to know, and you simply have to have evidence. There is nothing wrong with it, it is admirable, (and I agree, me=Devil's Advocate), but it pretty much hampers any explanation or understanding of beliefs.

Then you're not really a christian. And again.. saying the old testament is only for jews is completely wrong. How many times do I have to quote the passages from the new testament with explicit instructions not to ignore the old material:


Funnily enough, both God from the OT and NT should be viewed the same, but the Bible in itself, describes 'them' differently. I'd also like to add that this is true only for fundamentalist Christians who believe only in the literal interpretation of the Bible. Many do not think that God is vengeful or rathful, as depicted in the OT, but believe in how God is described by the prophets in the NT. Mind you, I far from read the entire Bible, or can tell you what is where, but I can tell you the general line among it.

But what about god's 'master plan' for us all? Is god so feeble then that he can't do anything to effect our reality? If he can answer prayers and make things happen, then surely he can act on his own to change things, even if that results in people dying or suffering.


According to the Christians I know, they view him as the Creator, no tthe takes-care-of-all-your-problems man. God supposedly created humans to be self aware and to know what we are doing. If we make a mess, we cannot count on God to clean it up. Instead humans have to ask God for the strength to fix it ourselves, but he cannot just 'fix it'.

According to the Bible, the world he created was not 'wicked' or 'evil', at first. It was us humans who disturbed the natural balance, which is why God won't 'fix it'.
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

Firefly:

A good point; but in lieu of hard evidence, I think it's fair to go with logic, probability, & rational thought over faith.

According to the Bible, the world he created was not 'wicked' or 'evil', at first. It was us humans who disturbed the natural balance, which is why God won't 'fix it'.


Which begs the questions, why would he destroy most of the earth in the great flood? Why talk to Noah, or Moses? Why annhilate sodom & gomorrah, but send angels to warn the one pious family that lived there (and then still turn the wife into salt just for looking back).

Why send his Son, which is really himself, to absolve everyone of their sins? And if I'm to believe CaptainSamoa, why save children from cars or individuals in plane crashes?

I know some people think of god as purely a creator, who hasn't done *jack* since the beginning of the universe, but that's definitely not the christian god who answers prayers and smites evil-doers when he hasn't had his morning cup o' joe.
quakingphear
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quakingphear
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Peasant

Which begs the questions, why would he destroy most of the earth in the great flood?

Easy. God created the original etch-a-sketch. Earth. But seriously, you're comparing God to Man. You understand how Man thinks, so that is immediately what you equate God to. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't know how God thinks, and I don't either. No-one knows, not even people who believe in Him. No-one can know.

It's like if a random guy came up and peed on your foot and ran off before you get a chance to interject, let alone question him. Sure, you'll have your assumptions. "What's with that nutter? Guess I'll wash off my sneakers and enjoy my coffee." But for all you know your foot was on fire, and lacking a bucket of water this good Samaratin just saved your shoe, and only later do you notice the scorch marks.(For the slow students I'm using something called "metaphors". Or maybe it's some other literary device whatever) Or maybe there weren't any scorches and you come away from it with a good story.

There are just some things that are so random and unnoticed you can't really know for sure how they fit into other events. And if you argue that logic would explain these occurences, without proof you still justify it with that logic is logical. And that still boils down to having a form of faith. So faith isn't so silly is it?

And yes, I just compared God to a guy who casually pees on your leg.
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
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Peasant

Easy. God created the original etch-a-sketch. Earth. But seriously, you're comparing God to Man. You understand how Man thinks, so that is immediately what you equate God to. The point I'm trying to make is that you don't know how God thinks, and I don't either. No-one knows, not even people who believe in Him. No-one can know.


There's no proof for his existence anyway; speculating on god's thoughts or what god decides to do is largely just goofing off because it's pure speculation. I don't need to know what someone's imaginary friend is thinking, because they're not real.

There are just some things that are so random and unnoticed you can't really know for sure how they fit into other events. And if you argue that logic would explain these occurences, without proof you still justify it with that logic is logical. And that still boils down to having a form of faith. So faith isn't so silly is it?


How is thinking events are the culmination of uncountable amounts of life forms that effect & interact with each other on a planet create insurmountable odds for the occurence of events some people take as 'meaningful' as.. just stuff? That's not faith, it's realism. I'm not 'believing' in anything - as the saying goes: Shit happens. If you're trying to point out that I'm on even grounds with someone who thinks the ordered chaos of this Earth is a carefully manufactured system of events that is being controlled by an all-powerful being, you're off your rocker.
clipmaster3
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clipmaster3
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Nomad

If there is a god, do you think he's happy with the way all these different religions think they know exactly what he wants? Who's going to hell now?

PS don't take too much offense... it's a joke =P

quakingphear
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quakingphear
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Peasant

If you're trying to point out that I'm on even grounds with someone who thinks the ordered chaos of this Earth is a carefully manufactured system of events that is being controlled by an all-powerful being, you're off your rocker.


All I'm saying is it's a possibility. I really don't know if that's the way it works for sure. Chaos theory's tricky that way. And what's with the personal shots dude? I disagree with you sure but lighten up. I'm not some Bible-thumper. I thought this was just a mature sharing of ideas.

There's no proof for his existence anyway; speculating on god's thoughts or what god decides to do is largely just goofing off because it's pure speculation.

Exactly. I've been saying not to try and guess what He's thinking because you'll never get it right on the money. I think people should focus on the positive teachings, and proper interpretation of said teachings, instead of saying they know what God wants and God wants you to buy my Self Help Book. Praise Jesus! That kind of stuff.
Coq
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Coq
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Jester

Watch out he will SMITE YOU! no seriously I agree

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