[necro]How could people believe in god?!

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caucasiafro

338 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 1:11am UTC

[quote]Already been there. This is a endless circle of this:
believer:god exists
athiest:no because you can't prove god exists
believer: how were we created then?
athiest:big bang
believer: big bang is flawed and god exists.

and the cycle repeats its self
quote]

Thats what makes its so fun :P

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thisisnotanalt

9,821 posts

Farmer

Posted July 14, '09 1:17am UTC

Why is it that the earth is the only planet to have life on it?

It probably isn't.

Despite how low we think the chances of life occurring are, keep in mind that there are trillions of galaxies, presumably with billions of planets each.
1,000,000,000,000 X 1,000,000,000 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Assuming that there are at least 1 trillion galaxies with at least one billion planets each, there are at least 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe., Wouldn't such a high number negate low chances? Give or take some, I know, but it's a rough estimation.

--------------

But why is it that humans are here and that everything on the planet can sooth our needs?

Most likely evolution, and because other life is fundamentally similar to human life, consuming other life will supply us with nutrients that we are built on and need due to the similarity. Something like that.

--------

Kielzanie, a lot of your questions are based on our location and circumstance, when evolution is the simplest answer to your questions. We evolved to fit the conditions around us, because we couldn't change them. And because we evolved and developed to fit those conditions, we fit those conditions. Make sense?

And for the DNA. . .we don't understand DNA fully yet - religion has no mention of it, because religion isn't scientific, and science hasn't decoded it either.

And when we decompose, I'm pretty sure the organic matter deteriorates. Soil is just that - deteriorated organic matter. When we decompose, soil is just another step in the decomposition process, not necessarily a transformation. And we don't know if souls are real or not. Emotions are from our brain, not our soul, if souls exist. A lot of your questions in regard to the existence of a god are irrelevant - they deal with things like souls, Earth being the only planet with life, etc. all of which are religious ideas. You have to question the existence of a god from a neutral standpoint, not a religious or an atheist one.

[quote]Why is it that the earth is the only planet to have life on it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nIt probably isn't.\r\n\r\nDespite how low we think the chances of life occurring are, keep in mind that there are trillions of galaxies, presumably with billions of planets each.\r\n1,000,000,000,000 X 1,000,000,000 = [b]1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000[/b]\r\n\r\nAssuming that there are at least 1 trillion galaxies with at least one billion planets each, there are at least 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the Universe.,  Wouldn't such a high number negate low chances?  Give or take some, I know, but it's a rough estimation.\r\n\r\n--------------\r\n\r\n[quote]But why is it that humans are here and that everything on the planet can sooth our needs?[/quote]\r\n\r\nMost likely evolution, and because other life is fundamentally similar to human life, consuming other life will supply us with nutrients that we are built on and need due to the similarity.  Something like that.\r\n\r\n--------\r\n\r\nKielzanie, a lot of your questions are based on our location and circumstance, when evolution is the simplest answer to your questions.  We evolved to fit the conditions around us, because we couldn't change them.  And because we evolved and developed to fit those conditions, we fit those conditions.  Make sense?\r\n\r\nAnd for the DNA. . .we don't understand DNA fully yet - religion has no mention of it, because religion isn't scientific, and science hasn't decoded it either.\r\n\r\nAnd when we decompose, I'm pretty sure the organic matter deteriorates.  Soil is just that - deteriorated organic matter.  When we decompose, soil is just another step in the decomposition process, not necessarily a transformation.  And we don't know if souls are real or not.  Emotions are from our brain, not our soul, if souls exist.    A lot of your questions in regard to the existence of a god are irrelevant - they deal with things like souls, Earth being the only planet with life, etc. all of which are  religious ideas.  You have to question the existence of a god from a neutral standpoint, not a religious or an atheist one.

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Talo

945 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 2:48am UTC

True words!!!

You are my new best friend. Agreed.

Thank you, but I just speek the truth. Christians aren't a burden, stupid, or even nessisarily wrong. They are just annoying. It's like the right to smoke. You have as much right to smoke as I have to NOT breath your smoke. If you answer everything with religion, it usually means you are wanting to talk about religion. Maybe one in a million people want to be told about your religion. It's annoying, and it's not your job to spread the word.

This topic begs to start a religious debate. Unfortunatly, most people who answere here assume that it was about christianity, because it's the only TRUE religion. I'm actually more willing to believe in Shintoism were there is a spirit or life force in every living thing, and they have their own local gods that watch over them. I also would like to believe in Karma, as it's more spiritual and logical for the reward and punishment of deeds done in the now, instead of after death.

The reason I can't believe in God is because humans can't be the only life that is important. And a few years spent in this world brings an endless amount of pain or happiness depending on where, when and how you were born into the world. This just seems too insain to be true.

[quote]True words!!![/quote]\r\n\r\n[quote]You are my new best friend. Agreed.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThank you, but I just speek the truth.  Christians aren't a burden, stupid, or even nessisarily wrong.  They are just annoying.  It's like the right to smoke.  You have as much right to smoke as I have to NOT breath your smoke.  If you answer everything with religion, it usually means you are wanting to talk about religion. Maybe one in a million people want to be told about your religion.  It's annoying, and it's not your job to spread the word.\r\n\r\nThis topic begs to start a religious debate.  Unfortunatly, most people who answere here assume that it was about christianity, because it's the only TRUE religion.  I'm actually more willing to believe in Shintoism were there is a spirit or life force in every living thing, and they have their own local gods that watch over them.  I also would like to believe in Karma, as it's more spiritual and logical for the reward and punishment of deeds done in the now, instead of after death.  \r\n\r\nThe reason I can't believe in God is because humans can't be the only life that is important.  And a few years spent in this world brings an endless amount of pain or happiness depending on where, when and how you were born into the world.  This just seems too insain to be true.

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HiddenDistance

1,310 posts

Peasant

Posted July 14, '09 3:45am UTC

This irritates the heck out of me. this may seem unfair to athiests...but the reality is... Christians have a right to share their beliefs with whoever they want. Athiests have the right to express their ideas to people...but when they attack god or christianity...that's just wrong...and really, when athiests start attacking christianity or other religions, and try to get people to see things their way...that's the point where atheism becomes it's own religion.

So what you're really saying here, is that "Christians have a right" to tell people about god and share their feelings and opinions, but an atheist should keep their views and opinions to themselves? You don't realize how bad that makes you sound.

Why is the universe so dam perfect?

The universe... is perfect? In what way? Everything that we've seen and discovered so far is too cold, too hot, or too inhospitable to forms of life that we're familiar with. I addressed this point ages ago in this thread - which alt has reproduced on this page. The odds are slim, but when you're dealing with such a large amount of real estate, it had to happen *somewhere* - and our planet happens to be one of those potential somewheres. There are very likely others, and astronomers are still working very hard to find another 'earth-like' planet that sits in that sort of goldilocks distance from a sun where it doesn't burn to a crisp or freeze into a giant ball of rocks and ice.

Kielzanie, I've read the bible. I've spoken to biblical scholars. I once attended a sort of week long camp/seminar on Christianity - these people don't have any more convincing arguments for miracles, existence of god, or the creation of the universe then you do. Where are you 'challenging' yourself to see it from our point of view? That these holy books were written by *men* and societies have been controlled and dominated by the church in some form or another for a greater part of history. Even without religion, humans crave power. It's not a stretch to say that those in the clergy or its counterparts did it for their own purposes.

... Couldn't resist:

WOW ALL YOUR GUYS ARE FREAKIN RETARDED. SOME OF YOU ARE MAKING FUN OF RELIGION AND EVERYTHING. DON'T DO THAT YOU PIECE OF CRAP LITTLE KIDS.

A measured & calm reaction. I'm not a 'little kid' and I certainly don't appreciate the piece of crap remark.

just shut up and don't talk about peoples religion like it's nothing.
because it is something to other people. like me, I believe in god strongly and for u to say that we are just a bunch of crazy people, is just sickening.

I'm not talking about it like it's nothing. I talk about it like it's an unwanted pestulent plague on the human race. If you find it sickening that some atheists think you're crazy, maybe you should examine the reasons why atheists don't share your views.

And wow most of these dumb kids don't know what they are talking about. have u ever read one chapter of the bible or anything? I bet u haven't, So It's just like the saying don't judge a book by it's cover.

I've read the bible cover to cover - which is more then a lot of people who claim to be christian.

all of you don't think someone made you? ( or most of you ) What did? dirt? A tree?

How about my mother & father? Yeah... that sounds about right.

how did the universe suddenly appear? hmmm wow? a big bang? thats what you say..
What causes a big bang exactly?

To be honest, I'm not all that sold on the idea of the big bang. There are some elements of it that make some sense, but I'm not sure all of the cards are on the table so I'm not really ready to subscribe to it as a solid theory. Beyond that though.. I'm not really bothered. We're getting to know our universe better and better - I don't feel terribly compelled to have all of the answers right now because.. it's not that big a deal. Not fully knowing the scientific explanation for the beginning of our universe as we know it does not mean that 'god' is the best explanation (in fact it still remains a very poor explanation at best).

u don't know anything so shut your mouth about other peoples religion. if you wanna say things, just don't keep it to yourself.

Is it just that you're getting upset because you have nothing to bring to the argument but being angry that your religious views cannot stand up to scientific scrutiny? Also, before accusing others of not knowing anything, perhaps you would do well to spell words correctly, and use proper grammar - someone might actually take you a little more seriously.

[quote]This irritates the heck out of me.  this may seem unfair to athiests...but the reality is... Christians have a right to share their beliefs with whoever they want.  Athiests have the right to express their ideas to people...but when they attack god or christianity...that's just wrong...and really, when athiests start attacking christianity or other religions, and try to get people to see things their way...that's the point where atheism becomes it's own religion.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo what you're really saying here, is that "Christians have a right" to tell people about god and share their feelings and opinions, but an atheist should keep their views and opinions to themselves?  You don't realize how bad that makes you sound.\r\n\r\n[quote]Why is the universe so dam perfect?[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe universe... is perfect?  In what way?  Everything that we've seen and discovered so far is too cold, too hot, or too inhospitable to forms of life that we're familiar with.  I addressed this point ages ago in this thread - which alt has reproduced on this page.  The odds are slim, but when you're dealing with such a large amount of real estate, it had to happen *somewhere* - and our planet happens to be one of those potential somewheres.  There are very likely others, and astronomers are still working very hard to find another 'earth-like' planet that sits in that sort of goldilocks distance from a sun where it doesn't burn to a crisp or freeze into a giant ball of rocks and ice.\r\n\r\nKielzanie, I've read the bible.  I've spoken to biblical scholars.  I once attended a sort of week long camp/seminar on Christianity - these people don't have any more convincing arguments for miracles, existence of god, or the creation of the universe then you do.  Where are you 'challenging' yourself to see it from our point of view?  That these holy books were written by *men* and societies have been controlled and dominated by the church in some form or another for a greater part of history.  Even without religion, humans crave power.  It's not a stretch to say that those in the clergy or its counterparts did it for their own purposes.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n... Couldn't resist:\r\n\r\n[quote]WOW ALL YOUR GUYS ARE FREAKIN RETARDED. SOME OF YOU ARE MAKING FUN OF RELIGION AND EVERYTHING. DON'T DO THAT YOU PIECE OF CRAP LITTLE KIDS.[/quote]\r\n\r\nA measured & calm reaction.  I'm not a 'little kid' and I certainly don't appreciate the piece of crap remark.\r\n\r\n\r\n[quote]just shut up and don't talk about peoples religion like it's nothing.\r\nbecause it is something to other people. like me, I believe in god strongly and for u to say that we are just a bunch of crazy people, is just sickening. [/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm not talking about it like it's nothing.  I talk about it like it's an unwanted pestulent plague on the human race.  If you find it sickening that some atheists think you're crazy, maybe you should examine the reasons why atheists don't share your views.\r\n\r\n[quote]And wow most of these dumb kids don't know what they are talking about. have u ever read one chapter of the bible or anything? I bet u haven't, So It's just like the saying don't judge a book by it's cover. [/quote]\r\n\r\nI've read the bible cover to cover - which is more then a lot of people who claim to be christian.\r\n\r\n[quote]all of you don't think someone made you? ( or most of you )  What did? dirt? A tree?[/quote]\r\n\r\nHow about my mother & father?  Yeah... that sounds about right.\r\n\r\n[quote]how did the universe suddenly appear? hmmm wow? a big bang? thats what you say..\r\nWhat causes a big bang exactly?[/quote]\r\n\r\nTo be honest, I'm not all that sold on the idea of the big bang.  There are some elements of it that make some sense, but I'm not sure all of the cards are on the table so I'm not really ready to subscribe to it as a solid theory.  Beyond that though.. I'm not really bothered.  We're getting to know our universe better and better - I don't feel terribly compelled to have all of the answers right now because.. it's not that big a deal.  Not fully knowing the scientific explanation for the beginning of our universe as we know it does not mean that 'god' is the best explanation (in fact it still remains a very poor explanation at best).\r\n\r\n[quote]u don't know anything so shut your mouth about other peoples religion. if you wanna say things, just don't keep it to yourself.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIs it just that you're getting upset because you have nothing to bring to the argument but being angry that your religious views cannot stand up to scientific scrutiny?  Also, before accusing others of not knowing anything, perhaps you would do well to spell words correctly, and use proper grammar - someone might actually take you a little more seriously.

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samy

4,871 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 5:01am UTC

In a reply to HiddenDistance, ignore them..please. I'm a Christian and I admit that while science has come up with legitimate reasons as to how the universe could come about without a god I think that it did come about with the help of God. Now I'm not going to spend my time trying to convince anyone I'm right because I won't convince anyone so I won't waste my time, however I will strive to show that I'm a Christian through the ways I act. (Not to say Non-Christians aren't as good or better morally than Christians.)

I talk about it like it's an unwanted pestulent plague on the human race. If you find it sickening that some atheists think you're crazy, maybe you should examine the reasons why atheists don't share your views.

Well, um thank you then? I really don't like being called an "unwanted pestulant plague on the human race" but I mean your entitled to that opinion. I think you might want to think about what you say before you say it because in this case it seems you have no tolerance what so ever, for people with different beliefs. For the record though Christians (not religion) has done more good than bad to the world and it's inhabitants.

Also why it may seem annoying that we attempt to change your beliefs well it's because (or at least it should be) we honestly care about you and want you to see how great it is to be a Christian. Now I know that's all opinion so please don't flame me for being ignorant and what not. However if you ever meet one of those annoying pushy Christians that preach fire and brimstone and LITERALY shove our beliefs upon you please punch them in the face, it'l do everyone good.

In a reply to HiddenDistance, ignore them..please. I'm a Christian and I admit that while science has come up with legitimate reasons as to how the universe could come about without a god I think that it did come about with the help of God. Now I'm not going to spend my time trying to convince anyone I'm right because I won't convince anyone so I won't waste my time, however I will strive to show that I'm a Christian through the ways I act. (Not to say Non-Christians aren't as good or better morally than Christians.)\r\n\r\n[quote]  I talk about it like it's an unwanted pestulent plague on the human race.  If you find it sickening that some atheists think you're crazy, maybe you should examine the reasons why atheists don't share your views.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWell, um thank you then? I really don't like being called an "unwanted pestulant plague on the human race" but I mean your entitled to that opinion. I think you might want to think about what you say before you say it because in this case it seems you have no tolerance what so ever, for people with different beliefs. For the record though Christians (not religion) has done more good than bad to the world and it's inhabitants. \r\n\r\nAlso why it may seem annoying that we attempt to change your beliefs well it's because (or at least it should be) we honestly care about you and want you to see how great it is to be a Christian. Now I know that's all opinion so please don't flame me for being ignorant and what not. However if you ever meet one of those annoying pushy Christians that preach fire and brimstone and LITERALY shove our beliefs upon you please punch them in the face, it'l do everyone good.

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deserteagle

1,633 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 5:12am UTC

Does that apply to Jehovah's Wittiness and Mormons? I swear, it seems like one or the other is banging on my door telling me that I can be redeemed and saved from the Apocalypse which is apparently just around the corner.

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samy

4,871 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 5:19am UTC

Does that apply to Jehovah's Wittiness and Mormons? I swear, it seems like one or the other is banging on my door telling me that I can be redeemed and saved from the Apocalypse which is apparently just around the corner.

Kick them in the balls...I think it's an old law that you can't go to heaven if your testicles are crushed...haha (actually I think it is metaphorical but i mean...)

But I mean they are a bet ridiculous but a lot of their beliefs differ from mine so I'm not entirely sure what drives them to do that..

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BigP08

1,455 posts

Shepherd

Posted July 14, '09 5:24am UTC

@HiddenDistance:

I'm not talking about it like it's nothing. I talk about it like it's an unwanted pestulent plague on the human race.

It's only unwanted by non-Christians. You could maybe say a politician is an unwanted pestulent plague on the human race because he/she has less supporters than their opponent.
You were responding to a flame post, so I don't blame you for saying that about Christianity, but I felt I needed to point that out.

How about my mother & father? Yeah... that sounds about right.

Lol, I think he means the first human beings. But no need to answer that because we all SHOULD know atheists believe that we evolved into human beings over a long period of time after the Big Bang.

@Deserteagle:
That reminds me... BE SAVED!

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samy

4,871 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 5:26am UTC

That reminds me... BE SAVED!

Very nice haha

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HiddenDistance

1,310 posts

Peasant

Posted July 14, '09 8:44am UTC

Well, um thank you then? I really don't like being called an "unwanted pestulant plague on the human race" but I mean your entitled to that opinion. I think you might want to think about what you say before you say it because in this case it seems you have no tolerance what so ever, for people with different beliefs. For the record though Christians (not religion) has done more good than bad to the world and it's inhabitants.

Make a distinction - I have no tolerance for the religion, I am very tolerant however, of people. There's a difference. As for more bad then good... there is both evidence affirming and decrying Hitler as christian - all those centuries of anti-semitism from the crucifixion of J.C. certainly had their impact.

Lol, I think he means the first human beings. But no need to answer that because we all SHOULD know atheists believe that we evolved into human beings over a long period of time after the Big Bang.

Even then - I do find the obsession with needing to have all of the answers to the universe *now* a little juvenile. I find it very liberating to have no idea about how some of the things in the Universe work, or how it started - but I'd be very interested in finding out.

In that finding out though, I think that "well god did it" is a bit of a cop out.. it's like taking the easy way out. "I don't know, so we'll just attribute it to god, and the question is answered." I think the real answer will be far more interesting, and, even if it's not - at least it's a real answer, with something to back it up.

[quote]Well, um thank you then? I really don't like being called an "unwanted pestulant plague on the human race" but I mean your entitled to that opinion. I think you might want to think about what you say before you say it because in this case it seems you have no tolerance what so ever, for people with different beliefs. For the record though Christians (not religion) has done more good than bad to the world and it's inhabitants. [/quote]\r\n\r\nMake a distinction - I have no tolerance for the religion, I am very tolerant however, of people.  There's a difference.  As for more bad then good... there is both evidence affirming and decrying Hitler as christian - all those centuries of anti-semitism from the crucifixion of J.C. certainly had their impact.\r\n\r\n[quote]Lol, I think he means the first human beings. But no need to answer that because we all SHOULD know atheists believe that we evolved into human beings over a long period of time after the Big Bang.[/quote]\r\n\r\nEven then - I do find the obsession with needing to have all of the answers to the universe *now* a little juvenile.  I find it very liberating to have no idea about how some of the things in the Universe work, or how it started - but I'd be very interested in finding out.\r\n\r\nIn that finding out though, I think that "well god did it" is a bit of a cop out.. it's like taking the easy way out.  "I don't know, so we'll just attribute it to god, and the question is answered."  I think the real answer will be far more interesting, and, even if it's not - at least it's a real answer, with something to back it up.

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SirNoobalot

22,207 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 12:16pm UTC

muahahaha im an official agnostic!

i do believe god exists, i juat dont dismiss the ideas of evolution.

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n00bie1296

59 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 2:35pm UTC

its hard to belive in god! he does not exist he is some made up person that people think lives in heven. but i don't know why you should belive in him. theirs nuthing good about him.

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Reaperoff

42 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 3:31pm UTC

i dont see how you dont believe in god xP

things dont just magically happen

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HoodHulk58

1,181 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 3:51pm UTC

Ok ppl yes god is a mysterious being and its hard to belive in him do to what drama is going on in the world but its a fact that he is real and you should at least try to give in to the spirit and go to church and get a higher level of understanding from your paster and he'll describe to you whats going on.

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Krizaz

2,399 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '09 3:52pm UTC

things dont just magically happen

Because God creating the world in 7 days isn't "Magic", your whole religion is based off "Magic"

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