Forums → WEPR → Islam

how is dat an invalid argument. U cant make the majority change for everyone else. In the UK they wanted to change the name of Christmans to Wintermass cos they didnt want the word Christ in it cos it offended them. For fucks sake u have to draw the line somewhere. Most yanks dont get it cos they hav a bigger thing bout citizenship and stricter on immigrants but most people in the UK who have immigrated from countries dont bother to learn the language and culture. We are so politically correct we respect their culture but they dont respect ours

@ Woody:

It may seem this way but I also know this to be true- that until there is a united way, conflicts will always seem like diametric opposition.

That is to say that the perceived nature of conflicts depends on the perceptions. If one believes their issues are not being addressed or understood, they will continue to be entrenched in that viewpoint and the parties involved will reach a hostile impasse. That is what happens frequently with cultural division- because the cultures differ, one believes that a compromise of their values will lead a slippery-slope way to ruin. But I think that's somewhat exaggerated.

This is a late post. But... I want to clarify this, Seriously, like Wtf.


"Islam is a fairly new religion. Many statements of the Qua ran contradict themselves, and in one passage 'Allah' says to protect woman and children and an other passage he says to 'Kill all the infidels'. Seems like a confusing and contradictory religion to me." -- Daniel McNeily


I don't think you know Arabic, Buddy, No offence to you, of course. What you've heard is probably from Christian/non-native scholars that have tried to look into Islam on their own point. Arabic is an EXTREMELY poetic language with so many words and each word meaning more than just a few things, also don't forget much of Arabic is still "Ancient". Its a very preserved language. You can't just look at the Qur'an, go to a translator and translate it and think that we're telling people to "Kill the infidels", There are many things I could say about other religions but I'll refrain from doing so right for many reasons. Btw, I don't believe that Jesus is god, Whatcha gonna do, Buddi?


Anyway, Just clearing that up, I don't want people thinking that our Holy book asks us to murder people, thats stupid.

I'm not going to ask anything about another religion, because thats not the topics point, again, just saying.

I think this is an old thread, not sure, but, Er, I was extremely bored and before actually checking on where this thread was randomly clicked on one of the stickied threads first and ended up here. But anyway, Yeah.

@ Strop. What you said is undoubtedly true and i cannot see either the white working classes in Britain or Biritsh Muslims getting past this. The differences are huge. However as they are immigrants to this country,many first generation, then i belive that it is their duty to assimilate. Many muslims in Britain go to all muslim schools, they do not speak english, they live in communities where no one speaks english, they attend mosques where no one speaks english and they wonder why native Brits are resentful when Labour gives them disproportionate amounts of representation. Political correctness has gone way too far in this country. They have even requested that they be tried by Shariah law.

My pparents were both immigrants to this country after WW2. They learnt the language within a year and tried their best to fit in to their respective communities whilst at the same time retaining their cultural values. Why is it that Muslims cannot seem to accomplish this, why is there still so much hate? I would not go as far as to say that islam is incompatible with western society because it isn't, but i belive that without sticter immigration policies then things are only going to get worse and could lead to riots like the ones in the 80s and 90s.

Woody, that is all because many, many people are too ignorant of Muslims. They see, hear, and think about Muslims, they imagine coalition groups, terrorists, and suicide bombers, which of course, that is true, they are Muslims, but the point I'm getting at is, not all Muslims are this way. Most of them just want to be left alone and to live in a quiet and peaceful place. That isn't always the case for them. That is why they emigrate, from their native homes, to nations of more freedom and will.

Those communistic Muslim leaders that you guys all hear about in the news, those are like Bible Thumpers on steroids. They expect those to be religiously correct and to use the Torah as their actual law. They took it too far and attacked those that aren't Muslim, simple as that. The Allies in WWII took it too far and gave Judaism the good part of Israel, and that just added fuel to the fire. See, all this is revenge from past conflicts, it won't end until their demands are met, or until they are stopped.

They see, hear, and think about Muslims, they imagine coalition groups, terrorists, and suicide bombers, which of course, that is true, they are Muslims, but the point I'm getting at is, not all Muslims are this way.

They expect those to be religiously correct and to use the Torah as their actual law

The Allies in WWII took it too far and gave Judaism the good part of Israel, and that just added fuel to the fire

See, all this is revenge from past conflicts, it won't end until their demands are met, or until they are stopped

They expect those to be religiously correct and to use the Torah as their actual law
I highly dount it, the Torah is the Jewish holy book, the Qu'Ran is the islamic holy book
- quote

Thats funni... Er, Woodi. The Torah is part of the Qur'an, and the Bible. Technically I think its the Bibles first testament, but I'm not really sure. The Torah is all the ancient stuff from which all three religions originated in.


Also, I think your facts are wrong, the Muslims that immigrate HAVE to probably know English -- Most of them need to or they wouldn't have the money to Immigrate, most of those who go to London are from Pakistan, and you learn english there. Anyway, their duty is to assimilate as all other britain folk do. Go to work, come back, and live your merry life.

They KNOW English, they just don't want to speak it. Hey, in my house, its Urdu 100% of the time with my folks, I live in America, this doesn't make me a terrorist that hates English. I can probably speak and spell better English than most of the idiots at my school anyway.
Most communities that move together wish to live together, if you immigrated to a country and you knew 20 other fammilies were doing so, you'd go with them and start a community. Obviously no one would speak English, but would it matter? They know it, they just speak the native tounge they have. Its not like I'd want my dad to have spoke english ever since he moved. I wouldn't know the extra language, which can be a negative towards academics, travel, and job-finding. So MEEH.

Going to a Muslim school is ones choice, I go to a Sunday School usually, but I've heard of Muslim Schools. And you can't whine over that, if you really want to then I have a right to tell you there are probably more Christian Public and Private schools out their anyway, so that should have nothing to do with a Britain, especcially one that is atheist. Going to a Masjid is what Muslims are supposed to do.

Just to clarify on Europe: Europe invites Muslims in with no problem, they don't want to, which is their opinion because a country like "France" is obviously even named for showing they have "French" ppl there, but their population is declining and France needs 450,000 immigrants a year -- Oh, Wait, They'll all be muslims. Well, suck it up.


Language and Religion are the basis of Culture, without them, your child would end up not caring for anything and he'd probably be the Senior in a Freshman science class that has a 16 for his grade. (Hahha. I saw him yesterday)


And nowadays, all people that aren't Muslim thinks that we're all terrorists ready to blow them up. Once a kid said I was Osama, I said "Beep Beep" and he actually jumped back. xD So effing funni.

And of course the groups are mad, the USA is hating on Illegal mexicans, the new incomers are taking away their country. But again, They have to deal. The groups hate because each other is different, that is all.


Also, the Israel is a different topic -- But it also just shows that the resentment of the NEEDED immigrants to Europe was causing the Allies to backfire and start their own war by making Israel their super "Army Base". And you can't deny that, Israel lives off of US taxes.

Newly Formed UN: Newly Formed. I doubt anyone but the makers are had a say in this, The main leaders = Allies. So your not getting very far.

Also, I don't know WHO your talking about.
For someone to die in the name of Allah -- Be a martyr, they have to be defending their religion, the small super small people that aren't muslims (Seeing as they kill, hate, whatever) and are radical terrorists have nothing to do with the real leftover 1.3 Billion muslims in the world that are mainly disliked by the western world thinking we simply love terrorism.

The terrorist attacks in London and 9/11 were very confusing, and they were depicted because the people that did it were not advocating their beliefs, THEY WERE USING THEIR BELIEFS AS SOMETHING TO BLAME. What, you really think if a Christian (Probably a religion closer to most of you here) shot someone and said they did it in the name of god you wouldn't give them any credit. Seriously, look at it straightforward -- we're all just people with a different belief. Get over yourself.

And looking at it from THAT veiw, when they gave Israel to the Jews it was so they could have the place for themselves. (My own veiw supports one thing: Just because Israelites ancestors decided to live in Israel for a while means nothing, finally they were left, scattered, and never decided to come back. That does not give them right over the land, neither does their religion.

Terrorism sucks, but like you said Muslims dosee it as a Noble Sacrifice. they DONT. They find it just as horrible as you do, worse, probably, just because they get hated for it.

Btw: 60% did not Sympathize with it, these are random poll facts that went from as low as 1% to 88%. They sympathized with the fact that the terror attacks were only happening because most of the people that are Brittish were showing a little too much hate, in the end somebody's gonna pop, and in Europe -- Muslim Population is on a +. European population.. Not so much, they need the labor, so they shouldn't feel invaded if they get Immigrants.

Also, I think your facts are wrong, the Muslims that immigrate HAVE to probably know English -- Most of them need to or they wouldn't have the money to Immigrate,

Most communities that move together wish to live together, if you immigrated to a country and you knew 20 other fammilies were doing so, you'd go with them and start a community. Obviously no one would speak English, but would it matter? They know it, they just speak the native tounge they have. Its not like I'd want my dad to have spoke english ever since he moved. I wouldn't know the extra language, which can be a negative towards academics, travel, and job-finding. So MEEH.

Going to a Muslim school is ones choice, I go to a Sunday School usually, but I've heard of Muslim Schools. And you can't whine over that, if you really want to then I have a right to tell you there are probably more Christian Public and Private schools out their anyway, so that should have nothing to do with a Britain, especcially one that is atheist. Going to a Masjid is what Muslims are supposed to do.

France needs 450,000 immigrants a year -- Oh, Wait, They'll all be muslims. Well, suck it up.

Also, the Israel is a different topic -- But it also just shows that the resentment of the NEEDED immigrants to Europe was causing the Allies to backfire and start their own war by making Israel their super "Army Base". And you can't deny that, Israel lives off of US taxes.

Newly Formed UN: Newly Formed. I doubt anyone but the makers are had a say in this, The main leaders = Allies. So your not getting very far.

Also, I don't know WHO your talking about.
For someone to die in the name of Allah -- Be a martyr, they have to be defending their religion, the small super small people that aren't muslims (Seeing as they kill, hate, whatever) and are radical terrorists have nothing to do with the real leftover 1.3 Billion muslims in the world that are mainly disliked by the western world thinking we simply love terrorism.

The terrorist attacks in London and 9/11 were very confusing, and they were depicted because the people that did it were not advocating their beliefs, THEY WERE USING THEIR BELIEFS AS SOMETHING TO BLAME. What, you really think if a Christian (Probably a religion closer to most of you here) shot someone and said they did it in the name of god you wouldn't give them any credit. Seriously, look at it straightforward -- we're all just people with a different belief. Get over yourself.

And looking at it from THAT veiw, when they gave Israel to the Jews it was so they could have the place for themselves. (My own veiw supports one thing: Just because Israelites ancestors decided to live in Israel for a while means nothing, finally they were left, scattered, and never decided to come back. That does not give them right over the land, neither does their religion.

errorism sucks, but like you said Muslims dosee it as a Noble Sacrifice. they DONT. They find it just as horrible as you do, worse, probably, just because they get hated for it.

Btw: 60% did not Sympathize with it, these are random poll facts that went from as low as 1% to 88%. They sympathized with the fact that the terror attacks were only happening because most of the people that are Brittish were showing a little too much hate, in the end somebody's gonna pop, and in Europe -- Muslim Population is on a +. European population.. Not so much, they need the labor, so they shouldn't feel invaded if they get Immigrants.