Since I have joined Armorgams . . .I see a lot of Atheists and their threads about why people believe in God etc . . . I wanted to start a thread about the bible and christianity.
The purpose of this thread is to debate a different book of the bible each week. We will discuss lessons, morals, and different stories.
We will have friendly debates. Please . . . if you are atheist or of other beliefs . . . you may discuss in this thread, just PLEASE no fighting, flaming, spamming, trolling . . . etc
This week we will begin from the beginning . . . .Genesis
I'm going to tell you she should say no and be killed. Then God will welcome her with open arms for saying no. She would have died doing what is right and nothing is more noble in the eyes of God. just please, please, PLEASE! respond with an intelligent reply unlike anything to the effect of: but what if there is no God? She would've died for nothing!
To be honest, I'm horrified & shocked that anyone would give that answer to that question. I don't really have a reply.
God, on the other hand is a celestial dictator who made up the rules and unless you follow them, you'll be punished. That sounds like something closer to Nazi Germany then Canada, or the U.S.A., or Great Britain, or Germany today. You'll forgive me if I don't find that 'freedom'. And it's not just punishment for a little while, like a few years - or even death; no, it's a punishment worse then death - eternity of suffering and torment. An *eternity*? That's just vicious and malevolent.
I'm very glad you brought this topic up. thank you.
last year, my language arts teaching brought up the question...
Is there such a thing as a benevolent dictator?
I answered: It's possible, but there are none to my knowledge. you are right though. God is like a dictator. no one rules beside him, no one is equal to him, he has infinite power. If we do wrong, we are punished...but not immediately...We are given a lifetime to redeem ourselves. We are given many chances to change. And it is in that respect that he is a benevolent dictator. God has given us his rules and commandments so that we know what he expects of us, so we may essentially decide for ourselves where we will be. I think some atheists are atheists simply because they don't like the rules that God has set. They may want heaven, but don't want to follow his rules for life on Earth and turn away. As for me, It's a small price to pay for eternity in heaven. a promise of heaven makes his rules a weightless burden on my back.
To be honest, I'm horrified & shocked that anyone would give that answer to that question. I don't really have a reply.
a death like that is the death of a hero in the eyes of God. Isn't that what everyone wants? to die a hero?
unfortunately not. there are some that do wrong simply because they like seeing the suffering and misery of others. This is why there is a hell. to separate evil from good. To have a good place, there must be a bad place, because there are bad people. God loves all of us, but he sends away his children who reject him and do wrong to protect his good, faithful children. to keep heaven a good place. Heck i would hope, for an end like that girl. To die a hero in the eyes of God. There is no greater achievement in life.
If we do wrong, we are punished...but not immediately...We are given a lifetime to redeem ourselves. We are given many chances to change. And it is in that respect that he is a benevolent dictator.
Benevolent.
1. characterized by or expressing goodwill or kindly feelings: a benevolent attitude; her benevolent smile. 2. desiring to help others; charitable: gifts from several benevolent alumni. 3. intended for benefits rather than profit: a benevolent institution.
I don't think any of those describe a being that would commit another to eternal torment.
I think some atheists are atheists simply because they don't like the rules that God has set.
Yeah, there are a lot of bandwagon atheists who think that hating on god is somehow cool.. but to hate something, or not follow the rules only because you dislike them, you're not really an atheist.
And for myself.. well.. he has to do better. I'm not going to believe in something for which there is a total lack of credible evidence. There is dubious evidence aplenty, but it's not good enough for logic & reason. I like the way Galileo Galilei put it:
âI do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.â
If he has in fact created humans the way that we exist... can he really blame someone like me for thinking about things rationally? If he does, he's created his own beloved species with intentional faults, and is damning people to hell because of his own mismanagement of our creation. If god truly is omnipotent, he would have known that after creation, the world would turn out *precisely* the way it has today, and that I would not be inclined to accept religion. So he created the universe fully well knowing that I was going to hell. I mean, I have 'free will' but if he knows everything, he would have known that adam would betray him, that you would follow his edicts, and that I wouldn't. Is that in any way fair or reasonable? He created me solely for the purpose of my own damnation. I don't buy into that. If he does exist, that's just cruel and unusual. I'd rather not be born at all then suffer eternal torment for his own mistakes.
Isn't that what everyone wants? to die a hero?
Well, can't speak for others, but I'd rather not die 'a hero'.
God loves all of us, but he sends away his children who reject him and do wrong to protect his good, faithful children. to keep heaven a good place. Heck i would hope, for an end like that girl.
But this runs into another problem. As we've already cleared that he is forgiving - if that rapist/murderer asks for forgiveness, that's his free ticket to heaven.. so.. now we have a 'bad' person in heaven just because he decided to repent. Whereas I, who am not *really* a bad person, will go to hell *just* because I don't repent or have an interest in the church.
I don't think any of those describe a being that would commit another to eternal torment.
He is kind and merciful, but will do what need to be done if he has to. he gives us a lifetime to make up like i said. we receive many chances. if we do wrong every time, we deserve eternity in hell.
As we've already cleared that he is forgiving - if that rapist/murderer asks for forgiveness, that's his free ticket to heaven.. so.. now we have a 'bad' person in heaven just because he decided to repent.
hehe I love answering questions with my own quotes! *ahem*
...well once again, praying doesn't quite cut it. He would have to mean it. he would have to admit and believe that what he did was horribly wrong. if someone that lived a horrible life, wanted to go to heaven and merely said aloud:
"I confess that Christ is my savior and I plead forgiveness for everything I have done!"
It doesn't mean anything. They might as well have said:
"I confess that horses can fly!"
If someone were to pray forgiveness, it would need to be for the right reasons. Not for getting into heaven, but because they were truly sorry for what they had done. It's one of those things where you need to speak with your heart, not your mouth.
Whereas I, who am not *really* a bad person, will go to hell *just* because I don't repent or have an interest in the church.
this is a prime example of where i think of something i've never thought of before. you didn't ask for forgiveness, so you don't feel sorry for it, therefore, you don't believe it's wrong, which essentially makes you a bad person when you die. If you believe that the wrong was right on earth, why should it be any different on in heaven?
He is kind and merciful, but will do what need to be done if he has to.
So.. should that read "He is kind and merciful, but also vengeful and vindictive"?
you didn't ask for forgiveness, so you don't feel sorry for it, therefore, you don't believe it's wrong, which essentially makes you a bad person when you die.
So you're saying that someone who has murdered and raped women, or killed small children, or put millions of jews to death in a holocaust is a better person then someone that goes through life and doesn't harm anyone, provided that the murderer *genuinely* asks for forgiveness, and the other person doesn't?
Is it just my computer or did my previous post that should be right above this one not show up? I hope it is just me cause i put alot of thought into it....
So HiddenDistance, are you saying you dont believe in forgiving, you have never done something that you completely regreat, wish you hadnt done, and will never do again? Do you know about the men who were crucified beside Jesus, how one repented and was sorry and was let into heaven?
God is like a dictator. no one rules beside him, no one is equal to him, he has infinite power.
You are both completely right and completely wrong at the same time. That is because Jesus and The Holy Spirit are equal to him, but they are him. To understand this you have to understand the Holy Trinity.
I was just wondering, are you guys Catholic, or Lutheran, or what? I'm Catholic myself.
(I think I had something else but i cant remember it)
I am a Catholic, and a firm beleiver in God. Hidden Distance, if you don't beleive, fine by me. Just take my advice: be a good person. Who cares if all the stories are fake? When Jesus was on Earth, he spread one major message: love thy fellow man. The whole Bible's moral is to simply do these two things. JJ, you needn't be concerned with what he beleives. As a beleiver, criticism is inevitable. Just take it with stride and be proud to love and worship God.
You can wonder, but stay respectful of others' beliefs. Do not criticize. Remember, this whole forum's idea is to inform on Christianity and to learn acceptance for others.
I am a Christian and I am tired of Christians being the ones who are constantly being attacked and outshadowed by the other religions, mainly atheists. This is a fresh breath of air for me.
So.. should that read "He is kind and merciful, but also vengeful and vindictive"?
eh, more like he gives people what they deserve if they don't ask for forgiveness.
So you're saying that someone who has murdered and ***** women, or killed small children, or put millions of jews to death in a holocaust is a better person then someone that goes through life and doesn't harm anyone, provided that the murderer *genuinely* asks for forgiveness, and the other person doesn't?
that's exactly what i'm saying, because when you ask for forgiveness, and mean it, God removes your sin from you, so the sorry murderer is clean, while the other man is covered in many little sins.
I am a Christian and I am tired of Christians being the ones who are constantly being attacked and outshadowed by the other religions, mainly atheists.
on this site, i've noticed a rather large number of atheists and agnostics, so yeah, this thread is nice.
