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Forums → WEPR → God: Possibly Not a God?
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Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both willing, and able?
then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god?
- 276 Replies
sry, the bible I was reading out of said that he was... guess I will have 2 get a better type.
What if your Bible is the correct one? A religion will never be convincing if it has more than one sect. Abrahamic religions practically fell apart after the death of the messengers (one of which is the son of God, or God himself, but let's not get into that.) After Jesus died, more and more sects of Christianity emerged, the same applies to Islam. During the lifetime of Muhammed, Islam was just that. Later on, Islam was split into many sects (Sunni, Shiite, Druiz, etc.) Think of it this way, a paper is torn into several pieces, and you glue them back together, when the glue wears off, you will have several pieces of paper that are worthless without the essensial part, the glue. These messengers were the glue, keeping it all from crumbling away, once they were no more, the religions were torn into a bunch of mini religions that don't have a guiding figure to tell them whats right and whats not.
The point here is, how do you know which one is right? You could be raised as a catholic, for example, and have enough faith to blindly follow what you were taught about God in that sect of Christianity. This is a matter of belief, making someone believe something isn't hard. A good business man can make you believe faeces are good for you and sell'em to you, and you'll be rubbing dog manure all over your face thinking it'll get rid of the acne/scars, or whatever lie he threw at you. Your belief in that sect of Christianity is no stronger than the faith of the poo customer, because you both strongly believe, after being taught to, that you are correct.
I don't want to get into deep religious debates because in the history of this community there has been TONS of debates that led no where other than the monster at the 51st page. The reason for that, is because no matter how eloquent your speech is, the debate is one that cannot be dispatched to even the simplest common ground between you, and the reason for that is very simple, you are not arguing whether the sky is blue or pink, you are arguing conviction.
Let's use Christianity for this part, as it is the most well seated Religion in the western world. Do Christians ever think "What was before the bible?" or even "What was before this god of the bible?" These questions are never asked by Christians because the priests who decipher the Bible did an exceptionally good job explaining the Book to the flock, they are the business men of the Light, they provide you with very convincing answers to your questions, without answering your questions. The idea that there is no god is not a new or bright one, many have stood and proclaimed that eons before us and had their bodies seperated from their heads (namely Galileo.)
We shouldn't be arguing whether an omnipotent being exists. Actually, we shouldn't be arguing at all, if we hope to become a race that will last until even the Earth is engulfed by the Sun's explosion. Otherwise, we will end up nothing but a bunch of fossils, that the next intelligent mutation (if another comes along) will find and study. We don't appreciate being human beings, any of us can change the world. If we must argue about omnipotent beings, then the argument should be what bought on the belief, what part of our evolution required the faith in a God. I understand Gods go right along with human evolution since the dawn of Man, but why do we, as intelligent beings, need such things that are so outside of ourselves. What went on during the evolution of humans that required this belief.
One of my favorite quotes by one of my most highly respected men, Mark Twain. "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Religion was used by rulers since the earliest tribes, to maintain the tribe leader's superiority and respect by the tribesmen.
If you believe in a God then whats it going to hurt to believe that God sent his only son to die for you?? what do you have to lose?? and if I am right then you will be in heave wit God, If you are right then you will find out then I guess.
First off, thanks never got a random question just for me =]]
and here we go.
We both know just to believe in a religion JUST because you believe that you will have a good after life is not a good reason whatsoever. Like I said, you shouldn't believe in a religion just because of the comfort it gives you, because it could very well be false comfort.
I dont want to force what I believe on anyone, but I would like to save as many people as I can from going to hell,
what you call saving I call making people into Jesus zombies.
but u see i dont listen to a religion.
How? God doesn't work in "mysterious ways" if you ask me, anything that happens at any time no matter how random can be translated into something god wants you to know or something satan wants you to do >.>
I am christain
then you listen to a religion. Even if you say you don't you do, because in every religion the leaders just make "God" into something of their own interpretation and you follow that interpretation.
The only way you don't listen to a religion is if you AREN'T one.
I always wonder, why when, according to the bible, god created us to have a relationship with him, would make it so difficult to believe in him? As well as, why would he make only one path to salvation? Isn't it reasonable to think that god, knowing everything before it happens, would simply represent himself in different ways to different people? I mean, if islam didn't exist, those who would be predisposed to believe islam for whatever reason, would not just believe in christianity because it was the only option. They would likely be agnostic or atheist. Obviously upbringing seems to be the first and foremost determinate in the religion observed by an individual but, that doesn't mean people aren't already endowed, through brain chemistry, with a propensity to believe in whatever religion.
Most importantly to my overall point, I doubt a god that knows all, has only the desire to have a relationship with us, and the means to do so, would simply choose to represent himself in only one way. As well as expect us to believe that the earth is 6000-10,000 years old just because of some genealogy, when carbon dating is so accurate, and we can observe the rate at which changes occur on the earth, to the degree that we can predict how long things take to happen....I mean come on, mountain building.
I believe in God but what are you guys tanking about ? God silenced sin a long time ago but then some of the people turned against God and joint sin . And now God is punishing us for not following the right path , only people that believe in God and pray to Go will go to heaven . If someone doesn't believe me ask me on my profile .
@pickleshack:
Only one point to bring up for you; your post seems to be under the assumption that all Christians believe in predestination or a predestination-like belief. I believe God knows what will happen because he knows us; he created us (if he existed, obviously), didn't he? I find that being like a father to everyone means he knows what we will do with our lives, but only we can make the actual choice. And there are many beliefs, too, but this is just my own.
@BigP08
Well, the posts are addressing those who do believe that. I don't think the posts themselves can be assumptive and I know that I wasn't. I realize that there are varying degrees of belief from those who believe everything in the bible literally, to those who may believe in god but recognize the bible as a book of stories with morals.
Lieutenut: We both know just to believe in a religion JUST because you believe that you will have a good after life is not a good reason whatsoever. Like I said, you shouldn't believe in a religion just because of the comfort it gives you, because it could very well be false comfort.
Your right its not a good reason, But Thats not the only reason I believe. I didn't have the best childhood*and still dont* there were times when I was a kind that I really did almost die and when I was scared It was like someone was there wit me. I could see someone wit me. first off No I am not crazy, and second I really think and believe it was jesus wit me, and he is the reason Im alive right now.
Lieutenut: what you call saving I call making people into Jesus zombies
No, A jesus zombie is someone who thinks they are jesus. I dont want anyone to think they are Jesus ... that would be sooooo stupid.
Lieutenut:How? God doesn't work in "mysterious ways" if you ask me, anything that happens at any time no matter how random can be translated into something god wants you to know or something satan wants you to do >.>
Ture and Faulse ..... God does work in mysterious ways, but when he wants you to know something he will make you know. He will not make you do what he wants but he will make you know.
Lieutenut: then you listen to a religion. Even if you say you don't you do, because in every religion the leaders just make "God" into something of their own interpretation and you follow that interpretation
A religion is a mans creation, God however is not a religion, and that is what I believe in.
Lieutenut: The only way you don't listen to a religion is if you AREN'T one.
kind of true .... but Im not a religion, Like I said in the quote above ^^ I believe in God he is MY only God.
pickleshack: I always wonder, why when, according to the bible, god created us to have a relationship with him, would make it so difficult to believe in him?
Thats the amazing thing it is not hard to believe in him .... Satan makes it hard, he puts thoughts in your mind that make you think there is no was there is a God.
pickleshack: As well as, why would he make only one path to salvation?
I will answer that wit a question .... why is there only one way to breath?? , cause its the best way.
pickleshack: Isn't it reasonable to think that god, knowing everything before it happens, would simply represent himself in different ways to different people?
another amazing thing He does, he showes himself to everyone in the best way for them to get to know God.
pickleshack: I mean, if islam didn't exist, those who would be predisposed to believe islam for whatever reason, would not just believe in christianity because it was the only option. They would likely be agnostic or atheist
very true .... but it all goes back to free will God wants us to believe in him cause we want to.
pickleshack: Obviously upbringing seems to be the first and foremost determinate in the religion observed by an individual but, that doesn't mean people aren't already endowed, through brain chemistry, with a propensity to believe in whatever religion.
very true, upbringing is a big part of it.
pickleshack: Most importantly to my overall point, I doubt a god that knows all, has only the desire to have a relationship with us
why is that. you said that you were going to be a father right?? .... lets put it this way, to your child you are all knowing, so why would you want a relationship wit your child?? ..... To God he is our father we are his children.
pickleshack: and the means to do so, would simply choose to represent himself in only one way
and what way do you think he wants to represent himself.
pickleshack: As well as expect us to believe that the earth is 6000-10,000 years old just because of some genealogy, when carbon dating is so accurate, and we can observe the rate at which changes occur on the earth, to the degree that we can predict how long things take to happen....I mean come on, mountain building.
if I understand you right you are saying believe in Man (who knows nothing abut anything) and not believe In a God who knows everything?? ..... how do you know that the carbon dating and all that stuff is right?? cause some man said it was?? .... unless you were there when the earth was made and saw it wit your own eyes you dont know when the earth was made.
God silenced sin a long time ago but then some of the people turned against God and joint sin . And now God is punishing us for not following the right path , only people that believe in God and pray to Go will go to heaven . If someone doesn't believe me ask me on my profile .
God is not punishing us.... he is letting us pick if we want him of to follow sin, and no you can pray all you want and believe in God but the onlyway to heaven is to ask Jesus into your heart and ask him to never leave.
OMG that took me 30 mins to type this up .... and if I spelled any words wrong or anything I am sry, im kind of sleepy :/
lol, well everything you said to me were good points I admit however
No, A jesus zombie is someone who thinks they are jesus. I dont want anyone to think they are Jesus ... that would be sooooo stupid.
I guess a better term would have been "Jesus freak"
Your right its not a good reason, But Thats not the only reason I believe. I didn't have the best childhood*and still dont* there were times when I was a kind that I really did almost die and when I was scared It was like someone was there wit me. I could see someone wit me. first off No I am not crazy, and second I really think and believe it was jesus wit me, and he is the reason Im alive right now.
That's a sad story but that could have just been your mind playing tricks on you when you were close to death.
Ture and Faulse ..... God does work in mysterious ways, but when he wants you to know something he will make you know. He will not make you do what he wants but he will make you know.
How does he "make" you know?
A religion is a mans creation, God however is not a religion, and that is what I believe in.
well that's good, as long as you're not a slave to religion.
kind of true .... but Im not a religion, Like I said in the quote above ^^ I believe in God he is MY only God.
he's your God as in he belongs to you? How did you mean that? And you said earlier you are a Christian.
guess a better term would have been "Jesus freak"
and is it bad 2 be a jesus freak ??
That's a sad story but that could have just been your mind playing tricks on you when you were close to death.
and yea I thought that 2 at one point.... but my real mom told my mom not that she didn't hurt me cause she saw someone wit me and my lil' sis.
How does he "make" you know?
I guess you can never know .... but how do you know that you are going to keep on breathing when you go to sleep?? its called FATH
well that's good, as long as you're not a slave to religion.
and that is very true .... that is why even though yes I am in a religion, well lets put it this way, if the leader of that religion *the man teaching it I mean* tells me to kill someone I would never do it :/
he's your God as in he belongs to you? How did you mean that? And you said earlier you are a Christian.
I mean he is my father and I am his child and I love him. and yea I am a christian , but it does not mean Im going to listen to what every man says about what I have to do.
and is it bad 2 be a jesus freak ??
How could it be good besides his morals and philosophy? To be a Jesus freak is to do anything they think is just in the name of him which could include injustices... like how pilgrims killed the native americans if they didn't convert to Christianity (I was promoting my new thread with that last part lol)
and yea I thought that 2 at one point.... but my real mom told my mom not that she didn't hurt me cause she saw someone wit me and my lil' sis.
I didn't understand that, could you elaborate a bit more?
I guess you can never know .... but how do you know that you are going to keep on breathing when you go to sleep?? its called FATH
I know I'll keep breathing because breathing is a natural instinct and it's proven by science.
I mean he is my father and I am his child and I love him. and yea I am a christian , but it does not mean Im going to listen to what every man says about what I have to do.
ohh ok, now I see what you meant by that.
Your right its not a good reason, But Thats not the only reason I believe. I didn't have the best childhood*and still dont* there were times when I was a kind that I really did almost die and when I was scared It was like someone was there wit me. I could see someone wit me. first off No I am not crazy, and second I really think and believe it was jesus wit me, and he is the reason Im alive right now.
Oh my god!
I hate people who are like that. Maybe it was just you coming to your senses. It wasn't Jesus.
Thats the amazing thing it is not hard to believe in him .... Satan makes it hard, he puts thoughts in your mind that make you think there is no was there is a God.
To believe this goes back to my earlier point. If god wanted us to believe in him and is infinitely intelligent and powerful he wouldn't be such an ass as to allow Lucifer to have his own kingdom. No matter what way you swing it that is just ridiculous. It doesn't matter that god tried to sway lucifer to stay, that's not the point, the point is god gave his enemy the power to sway his other creation, man, into not believing in him...stupid. I didn't necessarily create my son to have a relationship with him but the simple motivation to have one with him prevents me from doing anything that would put a barrier in between us that I can and I'm just a human. Thus if god does this, he can have his bible, he can have his church I don't want it.
I will answer that wit a question .... why is there only one way to breath?? , cause its the best way.
This answer to my question is subjective and I'm not trying to insult you but a little bit silly. You believe that Christianity is the only way to get to god so you also think it is the best way. Now go out and find a follower of islam who won't tell you that islam is the best way, or a jew that Judaism is the best way.
another amazing thing He does, he showes himself to everyone in the best way for them to get to know God.
To this I ask, do you not believe that your way to believe in god is the only true way? And if so, how can he possibly show himself to someone in another way. I was making reference to the fact that god being all powerful could be all of the gods of every religion if he were truly interested in catching the interest of all people who would have a propensity to believe in some unseen power.
why is that. you said that you were going to be a father right?? .... lets put it this way, to your child you are all knowing, so why would you want a relationship wit your child?? ..... To God he is our father we are his children.
You misunderstood me because of my failure to use grammar well. What I was saying was connected to the thing you commented about next, that if god is all powerful, and wants nothing more to have a relationship with us, he obviously has the power to represent himself in a way that would appeal to everyone, not just one type of person who would believe in one specific religion.
if I understand you right you are saying believe in Man (who knows nothing abut anything) and not believe In a God who knows everything?? ..... how do you know that the carbon dating and all that stuff is right?? cause some man said it was?? .... unless you were there when the earth was made and saw it wit your own eyes you dont know when the earth was made.
Well no, I don't believe in man implicitly. I trust science that is repeatable and reasonable. Also, what you say relies on the assumption that you believe first, that there is a god and second, that he knows everything. I don't see the wind, and yet I feel it, and if some man came up to me and said "What you are feeling is moving air!" I would believe him. Carbon dating: check it out...also you should read up on plate tectonics and mountain building.
many have stood and proclaimed that eons before us and had their bodies seperated from their heads (namely Galileo.)
Galileo was Christian, he just didn't believe in everything the church said.
Well no, I don't believe in man implicitly. I trust science that is repeatable and reasonable. Also, what you say relies on the assumption that you believe first, that there is a god and second, that he knows everything. I don't see the wind, and yet I feel it, and if some man came up to me and said "What you are feeling is moving air!" I would believe him. Carbon dating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating check it out...also you should read up on plate tectonics and mountain building.
I already understand Carbon Dating, and I had a bit of trouble with that wikipedia page, I think it should (hopefully) be explained in the simplest way possible:
Radioactive elements decay over time. Every radiocative element has a half-life, this is the amount of time it takes 1/2 of that elements mass to decay. Yes this does mean that it will never dissapear completely. All organisms exchange carbon it is an essential element to life. When an organism dies it stops exchanging Carbon, so this is when the half-life comes into effect. By measuring how much Carbon is left in the organism, we can find out how old it is.
Ex. If an organism dies with 50 grams of Carbon inside of it, and we discover it with 12.5 grams of Carbon. And Carbon has a half-life of 5000 years, we would know that the organism is 10000 years old.
Now this is commonly called Carbon dating but it can be done with any radioactive element. But the reason we use Carbon-14 is because it's half life is the smallest and there it is more abundant in organisms which makes it much easier to work with.
And that is how we can find the age of things
[quote]if I understand you right you are saying believe in Man (who knows nothing abut anything) and not believe In a God who knows everything?? ..... how do you know that the carbon dating and all that stuff is right?? cause some man said it was?? .... unless you were there when the earth was made and saw it wit your own eyes you dont know when the earth was made.[/quote]
I don't believe in Man who knows nothing, I believe in Man who has the capacity to learn and come to know things. And i do not beleive in a god that has never shown me any proof of his or her existence through a near death experience.
If I have to get close to death to discover him/her, then I find it is likely he/she is a figment of my imagination and simply a way of coping with the events that had led to me being close to death.
@Blu3sBr0s
Of course that comment was not directed at you my friend . It was shylagirl i believe she is called.
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