ForumsWEPRTroops in Afghanistan

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Indiagamerz
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Indiagamerz
77 posts
Nomad

Should we send more troops into Afghanistan?

  • 163 Replies
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Yes, however you were saying that if we kill all current members of the Taliban, we don't win. In reality, if we kill a good enough amount of the Taliban, we can contain them.


Define contain? Even if we killed most of their war fighters, we'd still have to deal with terrorist attacks and the like. Really it's all to do with hearts and minds, not bombs and bullets.

So, you're saying that even though they tried to overthrow the government before, they won't if we leave them alone?


I'm not arguing that they won't pverthrwo the government, which they almost certainly would if the US and UK left Afghanistan. You're completely missing the point. The point is that until 2001 when the US decided to invade, they were the legitimate rulers of the country.

Actually, if they turn themselves in they aren't punished and receive compensation. I haven't checked out the exact terms of it, because no one knows if any have gone for it yet.


Did you know that if they turn themselves in, it's highly likely their family will be killed, and they will be completely ostracised from their community?

You need to learn the definition of negotiating. Unconditional surrender and negotiation are not the same thing. Then again, Americans have never been very good at negotiating peace treaties.

Not all the Afghan people enjoy the Taliban rule. Sure, it may be better than it was before, but it's far from good.


No it's far from good, but it's not up to the US and the UK to change that. We aren't the world police, nor should we be. If we are using the 'we invaded to help the people' argument, then we there are plenty of other countries more worthy of invasion.

Also, don't forget that you Americans had no problem with training and supplying the Taliban with arms to fight the Russians, so don't act holier than thou on the issue of Afghanistan. Let's face it, humanitarian reasons aren't why you went in there.

Also, the point was that they are not rightfully running any region until the rest of the world accepts it. Yes, I know that world recognition doesn't mean anything to those who enjoy Taliban rule, but it is the measure for an official government.


No it's not the measure for official government. The US doesn't get to pick and choose who's a legitimate government to suit their strategic aims.

Until the Taliban has established a country and the necessary number of countries have recognized them, they (rightfully) run nada.


Also what is the 'necessary' number of countries? You do realise you're talking hogwash, and no such criteria exist? In the 1970s, over 40% of the UN members (almost all of Africa and Asia) voted to deprive Israel of membership. Does that mean Israel is not a true state? By your standards, quite possibly. In reality, of course it is a state.
balerion07
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balerion07
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Peasant

Good some common sense lends support. China blocked Mongolia from entry into the UN by claiming that it was merely a Chinese province. Does that mean Mongolia doesn't exist? And do enough countries recognize Taiwan? If suddenly everyone in the world thought they were a country except for China would they suddenly have a seat in the UN again?

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Don't forget Tibet.

A state is an objective conecpet. People choose not to recognise other states ususally because they have their own agenda, China being a good example as shown by balerion.

balerion07
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balerion07
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Peasant

Taiwan has a better chance than Tibet being an island. Plus their leadership has already held the UN seat for China before they were overthrown.

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Taiwan has a better chance than Tibet being an island. Plus their leadership has already held the UN seat for China before they were overthrown.


They may have more of a chance, but I think Tibet has a better claim to statehood, because it has a very distinct nationality, although don't get me wrong, Taiwan's claim is also a very strong one too.
Deth666
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Deth666
653 posts
Nomad

The only way to defeat them is to kill them. - Daniel Phillips Upham

A democracy can't function when there is a group usurping the power of the Government. We are already winning over their hearts and minds, but there is still a need for force which we need to meet.

goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

No more Separatism, let the states remain as they are.

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

A democracy can't function when there is a group usurping the power of the Government. We are already winning over their hearts and minds, but there is still a need for force which we need to meet.


Troop numbers and force aren't the reason that Iraq was a success. It was because the people had a genuine wish to get a democracy and had pre existing institutions to support that. Afghanistan doesn't. Their 'democracy' is a joke, with the Karzai administration bowing to the regional war lords, producing fascist legislation and rigging their elections.

Economically speaking they are the 4th poorest nation in the world. You can't just export Western style liberal democracy to a country and expect it to work, even with the aid of large amounts of troops.
whimsyboy
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whimsyboy
938 posts
Nomad

Actually, if they turn themselves in they aren't punished and receive compensation.

Yes, and that compensation is their family being killed by their neighbors, their houses being ransacked, and them being flogged in Guantanamo/other centers of torture.
balerion07
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balerion07
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Peasant

Guantanamo was not a center of torture. They had better conditions than in federal prisons. The "trial" in New York of the 9/11 planning is going to be a total farce and it should be left to military tribunal.

German3945
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German3945
996 posts
Nomad

Economically speaking they are the 4th poorest nation in the world. You can't just export Western style liberal democracy to a country and expect it to work, even with the aid of large amounts of troops.

Yes, it's a process, but it's a process that will happen faster if we do it now.

and many Afghan people want change, it's just a matter of getting the ones who don't to see the upside of democracy -- as it's expected most will.
Guantanamo was not a center of torture.

WOW! Close-minded enough?!
but let's not talk about Gitmo in a thread that's not about Gitmo.

There's a decision coming up in the next couple days, my gov'ner (Pat Quinn, IL) deciding whether or not the Guantanamo detainees will be moving to a maximum security prison here in IL, so we'll probably have a thread soon.
balerion07
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balerion07
2,837 posts
Peasant

The Guantanamo 13 I'll just say this. In a detention center where the prisoners are gaining weight it can't be that bad. Whatever happened to bread and water?

7432200
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7432200
134 posts
Nomad

Yes, we are. Its a good idea, we need to kill the mother ****ing Taliban and Al-quata

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

Oboma should not have said he is pulling out the troops, now we are going to have a Taliban-other terrorist problem... And worse, he got a nobel prize for that, witch is a rip off

goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

He got a Nobel for saying that he would pull out the troops.

Obama's Afghanistan plan calls for 4,000 more U.S. troops

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